IBS Dual Battery System ?

[sleeoffroad]

I think you can modify the system to manually "unlink" the batteries once the truck is running. Thus fully charging the aux battery. That's my plan. The entire system won't know the difference.

How are you going to do that? If you unlink, the 2nd battery will not charge. Unless you are going to switch the alternator output as well so you can select what battery it charges.

Like Christo mentioned, the bonus of the IBS system is to see the batteries linked together. That can be done without the in cab voltage meter of the IBS System. That being said, I'm still gonna visit Christo this week for the second battery tray (and a bumper) and run the IBS system. However, I'm going to modify it for my needs. I need a second battery that I can recharge in the field in minimal time. I don't want to drive 3 hours just to charge my aux battery.

Even if you just charge the one depleted battery, how are you going to get it charged up with minimal driving? You are going to need a generator or solar source.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think you can modify the system to manually "unlink" the batteries once the truck is running. Thus fully charging the aux battery. That's my plan. The entire system won't know the difference.

Looks like to me that you can only link and unlink the aux battery from the system. Doing this will isolate a dead battery from the system, which you might want to do if you are not charging to keep the main from being drawn down. The only reason that I could see linked the two batteries in this system while not running would be to jump start yourself or maybe to winch.

Like Christo mentioned, the bonus of the IBS system is to see the batteries linked together. That can be done without the in cab voltage meter of the IBS System. That being said, I'm still gonna visit Christo this week for the second battery tray (and a bumper) and run the IBS system. However, I'm going to modify it for my needs. I need a second battery that I can recharge in the field in minimal time. I don't want to drive 3 hours just to charge my aux battery.

You'll need some combination of time and energy equal to the depleted charge. It might be a couple of hours at highway to replace a whole night of use. Some laws cannot be broken...

 

[Fishy]

I'm not trying to get an instant charge, just much faster than the current system allows.

 

[corsair23]

How much of a difference would it really make?

Assuming the starting battery is at near full charge and reaches full charge within 15 mins of starting the truck, how much slower really is the aux battery getting charged assuming the majority of the charge is being directed to it?

I'm curious since I'll be installing the IBS as well. I'm not a "power" user so I'm not as concerned as Stan is but are we talking a 3 hour drive vs. a 2.5 hour drive for a full charge on the aux battery? Just talking high level because I know it depends on many factors. Just wondering if we are saying the aux battery will only be getting 50% of the charge or ??

I guess I always assumed that one the main battery was at 100% then 100% of the available charging got directed to the aux battery...

 

[DaveInDenver]

To know you need to see what current it's consuming.

 

[corsair23]

To know you need to see what current it's consuming.

I figured you might be able to offer some Dave style hypothesizing

Figure 2 identical batteries. 1 is the starting battery only and near full charge after driving to camp. The aux battery is down to 50% after a couple days of heavy use camping.

A stock alternator would be able to recharge the aux battery in a certain amount of time (with some caveats) if you were to take your approach and swap the aux battery in as the starting battery while driving (i.e. no dual battery setup).

But, with say the IBS system, would it take 2, 3, 4, 5 times as long to get the aux battery charged up?

As you mentioned, if you deplete the aux battery it is going to take some time to charge it back up and it will be longer than a short drive to the next camp even if the aux battery were getting the full charge.

Here is the IBS manufacturer's website:

http://ibs-tech.ch/en.html

IBS Dual Battery System FAQs

Data Sheet


And I found this in there under the rumors section:

The alternator only sees the well charged starter battery and does not properly charge the discharged auxiliary battery?
The alternator is a constant voltage charging device with temperature compensation and delivers up to its maximum rating charge current. The IBS Dual Battery System links the batteries as soon the charge voltage exceeds 13.1V this happens within a few seconds up to 3 minutes depending on the car. When the batteries are linked, the current flows according to the internal resistance of the batteries. The starter battery, in most cases, only takes a little current and the rest of the alternator capacity is available to recharge the auxiliary battery and to run auxiliary electrics and electronics.

 

[corsair23]

Manual link will allow you to pull from the main without turning the truck on, but only for a couple minutes then it switches back. I suspect that's a feature not a defect, but can be annoying since the thing beeps incessantly when there's a low voltage condition- on the cheaper Hellroaring you can flip a toggle switch to run your main battery down too, but I haven't found that option yet on the ibs, without running back to push the button every 5 minutes.

Tim,

I found this on IBS' site:

Manual Battery "link"
In an emergency situation (defective or empty Main Battery) or in case of higher power consumption the two batteries (Main & Aux) may be connected together by activating the link button (red LED manually linked is on) After a laps of time of 30 minutes (or immediately after activating the auto button), the system returns to the automatic mode. When using an electric winch, the battery connection can be activated for 180 minutes by pressing twice the link button. In this mode sounds every 30 seconds a Beep to remind this status (Auto return after time expired). The load sharing function with the manual battery connection reduces the load on the alternator, the wiring and the batteries in the use of the winch.

Seems like the "link" should be for 30 or 180 mins depending on selection and the beep is a reminder.

 

[nakman]

Tim,

I found this on IBS' site:



Seems like the "link" should be for 30 or 180 mins depending on selection and the beep is a reminder.

Interesting, thanks. 30 minutes seems like longer than my experience, it felt like more every 5-10 minutes.. was camping and at the time had the fridge hooked up to the starting battery, was listening to the radio too. But all evening long had to go back to push the link button, to make the beeping stop. I didn't know about the 180 minute option, but a beep every 30 seconds to remind me? geez that's worse than one every 30 minutes...

 

[DaveInDenver]

But, with say the IBS system, would it take 2, 3, 4, 5 times as long to get the aux battery charged up?

Assuming the main battery was in good shape, it would not take significantly longer to charge in the IBS type system than if you had no system and just physically swapped main and aux, but with an exception to consider...

First off, it might actually take less time if it was deeply discharged to bring the aux back up in the IBS system because it would draw current from the main battery as they equalized. But this is the caveat that allowing the batteries to be parallel means you will equalize the two by drawing down the good one to the bad one. A true isolator would only let charge current flow one direction.

You might have to keep the batteries separate until you have a chance to keep the alternator at a sustained higher RPM. If you do multiple days of crawling with lots of stops and idling, you could end up with two partially discharged batteries if they are linked.

 

[Fishy]

I'm starting to think this system is a lot of gimmick with very little function. In my opinion it's just not worth 400+ for something that can be done for $50, with less hassle, less parts to fail and better components. I'm delaying my install to consider just selling the IBS and doing an old fashioned dual battery set up without the useless blinking lights and sounds.

 

[corsair23]

Not a warm fuzzy endorsement...

My goal behind a dual battery system was:

(A) run the majority of my aux stuff off the aux battery
(B) leave the starting battery to mostly just starting the truck
(c) be able to "jump" myself should the primary battery go dead
(d) isolate the two so that my good battery doesn't get sucked dry by a dead battery

I figured $400-$500 was the price one had to pay to buy a plug-and-play system when one can't figure out how to do it himself

 

[Red_Chili]

FWIW, a high current solenoid picked off of IGN+ (and selectable for isolating, or self jumping, or batts parallel only on IGN+) has worked well for me for years...

 

[DaveInDenver]

A single solenoid like Bill uses is one cheap/simple option or a diode isolator is another simple option. Some people don't like diode isolators because of the forward voltage drop, but IMHO it's not an insurmountable problem for the benefit a true isolation (I'm not a fan of letting the good battery ever get sucked into charge-helping duty).

The only thing to watch with a solenoid is that the coil is rated for continuous duty, which a typical starting solenoid is not. They might look the same, but they're not necessarily.

My problem is figuring out where to put a second battery. Just nowhere has jumped out at me under the hood, so the bed in a box is my only real choice so far. But there's not that much room back there either, so nothing permanent has been done.

I've already designed the isolator. Uses HEXFETs, low drop (about 0.15V @ 10A, although at full alternator capability it would be more like 0.6V) with the ability to parallel the batteries like a solenoid. The problem is that I haven't solved the starting or winching while paralleled current flow. But they're good to 100A, so the charging isn't a problem, just the V drop gets impractical without several FETs per circuit.

A pair of jumper cables is all you need to self-jump regardless of the controller, not fancy but works. It would be nice to be able to use both batteries in winch, though.

 

[Fishy]

For $25 from Ebay or 3 shops here in Denver. http://compare.ebay.com/like/320859988390?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Turning this switch off while camping will isolate the aux battery. The main battery will not be touched. No wires to mess with, no system to fail. In easy terms, I would self jump my truck every time I started. For $10 I could install a voltmeter in my glove box that would fuction EXACTLY the same as the IBS one. Maybe even better, I'd get a digital display just by turning the voltmeter on.

The idea of of linking both batteries for winching like the IBS claims...... your vehicle is always running while you winch, the batteries are already linked.

 

[Fishy]

I figured $400-$500 was the price one had to pay to buy a plug-and-play system when one can't figure out how to do it himself

I figured the same. A simple on/off switch is a million times easier though. I'll still have 2 batteries with the ability to isolate the aux and run my HAM, lights, inverter, fridge...

I'll always have the ability to jump myself and I'll always be able to see the current state of either battery. The 100 even has a voltmeter as a dummy gauge, but a $10 voltmeter is easy to carry.

If something fails (most likely the relay) in the IBS system, or the LCD box goes haywire, can I get those parts? I don't know if I could trace the problem back to one specific wire on the IBS system. There are a lot of wires and if just one wire rubs through and shorts something out, then what?

 

[nakman]

You make some good points Stan, and great thread btw. Marco here did a pretty good write-up/thread on a similar setup to what you're talking about using a voltage sensing relay, http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11009 check it out.

 

[sleeoffroad]

For $25 from Ebay or 3 shops here in Denver. http://compare.ebay.com/like/320859988390?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Turning this switch off while camping will isolate the aux battery. The main battery will not be touched. No wires to mess with, no system to fail.

The only thing that can fail is the operator when you forget to switch it at the came site when you have the first in hand

 

[corsair23]

The 100 even has a voltmeter as a dummy gauge, but a $10 voltmeter is easy to carry.

I've got the Nakman voltmeter bling in my 80 already...just missing leads to the aux battery when it goes in.

But your single switch won't isolate the batteries during normal use correct? So, if you have a battery go bad some day around town you could end up with two dead batteries, unless you plan to only link the batteries when driving...Lots of flipping. You need a solenoid as well correct?

And I would say that yes, normally you would be winching with the engine running, maybe even 99% of the time. But there might be a time when the engine in fact isn't running.

 

[sleeoffroad]

The IBS system works and does what it should. Connect batteries when the charge level reaches a certain level and disconnects when it goes below that. It is a 2 wire hookup. About as easy as it gets.

A voltage sensing relay like the BlueSea does the same ( had one in a truck) however it does not have timing logic so if you had a 2nd battery that is low, and it connects due to charge circuit being high enough but he alternator can not sustain the charge above the level (like when idling) it will drop the connection. Then the voltage would go up and it would connect again and go into a state of "fluttering" when it connects and disconnect.

The IBS does not do that since it has timing circuit built in to prevent that from happening.

Also, what Tim was describing is a alarm to warn you that you are killing the battery. It is designed to do that so you don't kill the battery.

 

[Fishy]

I've got the Nakman voltmeter bling in my 80 already...just missing leads to the aux battery when it goes in.

But your single switch won't isolate the batteries during normal use correct? So, if you have a battery go bad some day around town you could end up with two dead batteries, unless you plan to only link the batteries when driving...Lots of flipping. You need a solenoid as well correct?

And I would say that yes, normally you would be winching with the engine running, maybe even 99% of the time. But there might be a time when the engine in fact isn't running.

I went and picked up a battery disconnect switch today. Picked up an 8 Place fuse panel as well. $49 for both. It won't let me isolate the batteries during normal use, but it will let me do exactly what the IBS does (minus the lights and alarm) for $360 less. The fuse panel and switch both fit perfect on the Slee 100 series battery tray.

The switch (mechanical solenoid) will always remain "on" unless I want to only use the aux battery. In that case, i will have to physically turn it to "off".

In theory, just like you said, I could end up with 2 dead batteries. But that's no more likely than my alternator failing, or ripping 2 sidewallls when I only carry one spare. How often to batteries just fail? If it just fails all of a sudden, the IBS system wouldn't prevent that either, it would just "tell you" your battery is dead.

I'm not saying the IBS system doesn't do what it's supposed to do, it's just something for my application, that can be done for $350 cheaper. Albeit, not as "fancy". I have no need for the lights in my interior. A simple dual battery system is all I need. Something that I can figure out, one switch, no frills, if something goes wrong a basic voltmeter will solve. Again, I'm not knocking the IBS system, a lot of people are using them and selling them. Initially my plan was to modify the IBS so I could separate both batteries at any time via a switch in the cab, but a little smarts and common sense will prevent me from ever draining both batteries all the way dead. There will be no "fluttering" or any thing like that. It's a very basic set up that's been used for 10 times as long as the IBS has been around.