How to treat a rattlesnake bite

[Inukshuk]

If you do push SOS then I suggest that you do not move. Any GEOS response will be to that GPS location.

In all my InReach training I have never heard "do not move." Do you have documentation on that? SOS activates tracking as well so they know if and where you are moving. I'd want to make as much progress towards where I thought my rescuers could meet me, which in some cases might mean to not move.

I have used my InReach for about two years now to send and recieve status texts in Israel, Jordan, Mexico, CO, UT and WY, all flawlessly.

 

[DaveInDenver]

In all my InReach training I have never heard "do not move." Do you have documentation on that? SOS activates tracking as well so they know if and where you are moving. I'd want to make as much progress towards where I thought my rescuers could meet me, which in some cases might mean to not move.

I have used my InReach for about two years now to send and recieve status texts in Israel, Jordan, Mexico, CO, UT and WY, all flawlessly.

The question would have to be definitively answered by GEOS or first responder who's dealt directly with GEOS activation.

All I'm able to offer is what I discern from manuals and have picked up over the years.

First is of practical nature, that when you are injured or lost it is generally better to stop moving so that only one set of variables is changing, that being the rescuers trying to find you. If they are chasing a moving target the probability of success goes way down.

Keep in mind that your position is being transmitted from your device and retransmitted back to a ground station to Garmin or SPOT. They then have to feed it to GEOS who then must forward it (probably verbally) to whomever they contact to rescue you. It's not like triangulating a cell phone signal and it's not like the movies.

Second, remembering that I personally own a generation 3 SPOT tracker, not an InReach, the manual says this:

The parts I'm reading between lines is "(with or without GPS)", which I interpret to mean in SOS mode the message is static, not a dynamic message like the periodic beacon message when in tracking mode.

So it's just a matter of knowing what I do about writing tech manuals for systems I've designed like this my assumption is the logic takes a snapshot of its current GPS location to build the SOS message.

It sounds like it may update the location in future messages, though. So it would not take much convincing to believe it *may* be trying to update the field when it updates every 5 minutes. But the lack of a clear statement either way leads me to prefer to stay put.

Next, the statement about prioritization indicates that when SOS (or the next lower function, "Help") is activated the tracking and check-ins are paused in the background. So again, your position may no longer be dynamic.

Remember that GEOS is not Garmin, not Iridium (who sells the satellite service to Garmin), Globalstar (who operates the satellites) or SPOT. They are 3rd party who contracts to provide emergency response to SOS activations. They aren't automatically privy to everything Garmin or SPOT knows, haven't been following your tracking beacons or your previous 2-way traffic to your contacts, etc.

They get a request for help, they call your contacts, try to call you, etc. to figure out what's going on. If you continue to move before you know what's going on it seems like from what I read you might be the only one who knows you've moved from where the SOS was activated.

 

[DaveInDenver]

In all my InReach training I have never heard "do not move." Do you have documentation on that? SOS activates tracking as well so they know if and where you are moving. I'd want to make as much progress towards where I thought my rescuers could meet me, which in some cases might mean to not move.

So based on what I've laid out for my logic, I am very interested in what you've been taught and the justification the teacher had.

I admit it's unlikely I will change my basic plans but I would like to know the potential ramification for moving in the future.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've taken a few orienteering classes, the WFA courses most of us have, etc. So I'll point to a few statements regarding moving.

First, the case where you are lost or otherwise it's a non-injury but still need assistance.

From NOLS:
https://blog.nols.edu/2015/08/03/what-to-do-when-youre-lost-in-the-woods

"But What If I Really Do Get Lost?

Stop! Do not continue! Every step in the wrong direction is a step in the wrong direction. Stand still, pull out your maps, take off your pack, and think. The worst thing you can possibly do is speed ahead. Most lost people have a mental map of where they think they are, but that map is usually wrong. This is why lost people who keep moving tend to move quite far in the wrong direction."

The case where it's an injury.

From Mountaineering First Aid by Carline, Lenyz and Macdonald.

https://www.amazon.com/Mountaineering-First-Aid-Accident-Response/dp/0898868785

"Most parties are not sufficiently strong or well equipped to safety evacuate a seriously injured patient. A minimum of eight rescuers is needed to handle a patient in a litter at any one time, and carriers should be rotated off duty every 15 to 20 minutes. Travel over off-trail terrain may require sixty or more rescuers for a trip of any distance more than a few hundred feet. Patients with relatively minor injuries can, with patience and care, be safely evacuated even by a small party."

They continue with saying, "The leader, when deciding if self-evacuation is possible, must consider the extent of the injuries, the type of terrain to be covered, and the strength of the other party members. The leader must also consider what will happen if the party starts to self-evacuate and is unable to continue. Will there be a safe place to stop? Several criteria must be met for a successful self-evacuation.

"The patient must be willing to help and must understand how to aid in the self-evacuation. All injuries must be treated prior to starting out. One person should accompany the patient at all times."

So my opinion is when activating SOS you should wait for help to arrive and appropriate transportation to become available. This is the salient point, we're talking about poo has been flung from the fan and you're up a creek. If you're not so lost or injured that you can still move then my basic assumption would be that SOS wasn't really necessary. You might need "help", but a flat tire or sprained ankle shouldn't (for us well prepared, right?) need a SAR call out.

 

[nakman]

Ok so I bought a Garmin InReach explorer+.

 

[Shuksan]

Ok so I bought a Garmin InReach explorer+.

FYI I go with the safety plan. With preset messages ("all good made it to location") I have not needed more than 10 a month. I also don't need to upload tracking points so people can watch me live. There are also work arounds on this. Sending a message or dropping a waypoint on your map. etc.

 

[rover67]

Yeah Daniel, I agree with Dave on this one. If the stinky stuff has really hit the fan and you’ve decided to push the button it’s time to sit and wait on help. If I had cell service I’d just call 911 and go from there. Snake bite and cell service maybe just dial 911 and talk through it. Let them decide what they think is best.

Snake bite no cell and able to self evacuate probably choose that option depending on severity. Dial 911 when in cell reach. Snake bite and far from help SOS and sit.

Try not to get heart rate up and no tourniquet or snake bite kits. Tourniquet just does more damage and the kits don’t do anything. Evac and real medical help is it basically. From what I understand walking probably won’t make it worse. Running probably not a great idea.

 

[Keith]

Hey there. I used to work at the Rocky Mountain Poison Center and managed dozens of rattlesnake bites per year. Here's my advice:

-Rattlesnake bites are very, very rare. Even more rare if you are a reasonable human being. A huge percentage of the people who do get bit are intoxicated and get bit on the hand. So... Don't get drunk and play with snakes.
-Rattlesnake bites are also rarely fatal. They mostly cause a lot of local tissue damage and pain. There are obviously exceptions (that tend to make the news), but again they are rare.
-The most important and effective treatment is Crofab, an antivenin that is available in just about any hospital you might stumble into. Getting to a hospital should be considered your first priority.
-Field treatments should only be attempted if, and only if, you cannot get to a hospital quickly.
-Do NOT use any of those suction devices and for the love of all things Toyota, do not do any of that cut and suck stuff you may have been taught in boy scouts. As stated previously, most of the complications from rattlesnake bites are from local tissue damage. Making cuts or pulling suction on the bite area will make that worse, not better. Also, don't put your mouth on yours or another person's wound, ever.
-Now, let's say you are deep into the back country, your truck has broken down, you've been bit by a rattlesnake, and your only hope for extraction is hours away. There is no way you can walk out of the area and you have no choice but to sit down and wait for help. In that case, here are my (and the Rocky Moutain Poison Center's) recommendations for field treatment.

Field treatment (only to be utilized if the conditions above are met):
-If possible, keep the bite area elevated to the same level as the heart
-Splint the extremity that has been bit to limit movement and thereby blood flow.
-Clean the wound with mild soap and water
-If you feel comfortable, put on a "venous constriction device". This is NOT a tourniquet. The idea is to continue to allow arterial flow to the area but to slow venous return. The idea would be to put on a band that is just a little tighter than a tight T-shirt. If this doesn't make sense to you and you don't understand the difference between venous and arterial flow, do not attempt this.

 

[Keith]

One more thing, since people have been talking about communications. I personally would not let anyone manage a rattlesnake bite on myself or a family member without them having consulted the experts at the Rocky Mountain Poison Center. They can be reached at 1-87-SERPDRUG (1-877-377-3784).

And remember, don't get drunk and play with snakes.

 

[rover67]

Hey Keith would you push sos on a spot tracker or walk out if that was gonna say take 3hrs to cell service where you could 911 it or get yourself to a hospital otherwise

 

[Inukshuk]

Also, the Garmin devices allow two-way text communications so a user should be able to discuss with GEOS whether they should/are staying put, or otherwise.

Now, Dave, about those corporations paying taxes or not .....

 

[DaveInDenver]

The real question would be is it still OK to play with snakes if you're not drunk?

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

The real question would be is it still OK to play with snakes if you're not drunk?

"Hey man, hold my beer and watch this!"

 

[BDGIII]

A few years ago a friend was pulling a tarp off a jump. There was a snake under it, it bite him in the shin. We put activated charcoal on it and took him to the hospital. The charcoal soaked up most of the venom. He didnt even need anitvenom. A few years before that i almost lost a good bird dog to a rattle snake bite. Didnt know charcoal would help then. The dogs get a snake booster now. Helps if they do get bit.

 

[mcgaskins]

Speaking of the Inreach...

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-after-spending-night-stranded-on-maroon-peak

 

[nakman]

Wow! thanks Keith, man this thread is next level now.

 

[Keith]

The real question would be is it still OK to play with snakes if you're not drunk?

No.

 

[Keith]

A few years ago a friend was pulling a tarp off a jump. There was a snake under it, it bite him in the shin. We put activated charcoal on it and took him to the hospital. The charcoal soaked up most of the venom. He didnt even need anitvenom. A few years before that i almost lost a good bird dog to a rattle snake bite. Didnt know charcoal would help then. The dogs get a snake booster now. Helps if they do get bit.

There is no scientific evidence (that I Know of) to support this.

 

[Keith]

Hey Keith would you push sos on a spot tracker or walk out if that was gonna say take 3hrs to cell service where you could 911 it or get yourself to a hospital otherwise

Tricky question to answer. Depends on a LOT of variables. Keep in mind that a lot of rattlesnake bites end up being dry bites. If it's a dry bite and you smash the SOS button and end up getting put on a helicopter... The helicopter ride is probably going to be the most dangerous part of your day.

But if the patient is someone older or in poor health... I'd be more likely to call for help. Or if the person had systemic symptoms... That is symptoms other than at the site of the injury. Things like dizziness, difficulty breathing, swelling around the lips or mouth. When people die from rattlesnake bites it is because they have a systemic reaction. That is usually people who get an intravenous envenomation* or people who have an anaphylactic reaction to snake bites**.

*Intravenous envenomations are when the venom manages to get straight into a vein rather than just into fat or muscle tissue. This has happened in two scenarios. 1. Intentional injection because people are nuts. 2. Really fit people with big leg veins get a really unlucky bite that ends up striking on one of those leg veins.

**Some people have a severe allergy to snake venom just like some people do with bee stings or peanut butter. As far as I know those are people who have had a lot of previous exposures. These people tend to be either herpetologists or people who make a habit of getting drunk and playing with snakes.

 

[DaveInDenver]

No.

Captain Buzzkill and the Bring Down Gang.