ATLR
0
Yes when the crank is up and the cam is on rite, the mark will be a lil to the left. The chain has marks on it too. If the chain is mark to mark you really cant mess it up.
Head Gasket Replacement
- Thread starter subzali
- Start date
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
The right way is with the engine exactly at TDC, the crank gear dimple will be pointed straight down and the cam gear dimple mark will be at about 11:30. The cam gear locating dowel pin is at 12 o'clock. Hard to see the orientation here, but the dimple is just to the left of the dowel. It should be obvious if you are off a tooth, but honestly I've never seen what a jumped tooth looks like up close. Also remember the cam and crank timing marks only line up every other rotation of the engine, so if you're not at TDC on #1 at the compression cycle, then it might look like the cam is 180 degree out of time. You know you are at the 'right' TDC on #1 if both rockers on #1 are loose and both rockers on #4 are tight.
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DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Yes, the bright chain links and gear dimples need to line up for the crank and cam to be in time (with stock deck height). Using the crank woodruff key and cam dowel locations are sanity checks. And yes, the cam gear dimple and dowel are not exactly in-line.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
No, probably not. If you installed it using the bright links, then just pulling the valve cover should be enough to verify. With the crank at TDC on the #1 compression cycle (you might use the crank key if you don't trust the oil pump marks), the cam dowel should be exactly 12 o'clock and the cam gear dimple just to the counterclockwise side of that, like the hour hand at 11:30. If it's not, then you can try to adjust in place or pull the timing cover, that's up to you. But you don't absolutely need to pull the cover just to check. In fact, the bright links aren't terribly useful after installation because you have to rotate the engine a bunch of times to get them to line up again with the dots. They only line up once every 48 rotations or something crazy like that.
BTW, if you do try and move the cam gear without pulling the cover, let me know how that goes and I might try and bribe you to come over and help me install that LC Engineering adjustable cam gear I got. I want to mess with timing on this Engnbldr cam to experiment a little I think, but I'm just gun shy about dropping the chain into the pan...
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Okay, that is what I needed. I did not pay attention to the bright links when I put the chain back on the crank gear, so right now that is not a good go-by. Going by your description I am one tooth off on the cam gear, so I'll jump it without pulling the cover (I did it last night a couple times) so it's in the right place. It's a two person job to get the cam gear back on the camshaft; one person has to rotate the crank while the other finagles with the cam gear.
Alright, got it back together and fired up tonight, I adjusted the valves WAY too loose cold, but now it's purring like a kitten after a hot readjustment.
So now what? Retighten the head bolts after a couple thermal cycles? And then readjust the valves? It also has a little stumbling/hesitation that wasn't there before, I'm going to get a new cap and rotor and put some top engine cleaner in (for the parts of the intake I couldn't get to) to see if I can't get some of the extra junk cleared out.
This is a job I'm pretty sure I would never do again, especially with a reasonable price from a shop. The timing chain is easy compared to this (way less bolts, hoses, electrical, and chances for failure/screwup), but I guess in some ways I'm glad I did it. It kinda took some of the mystery out of the EFI/multiport injection and some other stuff I guess. And now that they're both done, as long as I didn't screw something up, it should be good to go for quite a long time, which was kinda the point.
But it did take a little over three weeks what with all the other stuff I had going on...
So now what? Retighten the head bolts after a couple thermal cycles? And then readjust the valves? It also has a little stumbling/hesitation that wasn't there before, I'm going to get a new cap and rotor and put some top engine cleaner in (for the parts of the intake I couldn't get to) to see if I can't get some of the extra junk cleared out.
This is a job I'm pretty sure I would never do again, especially with a reasonable price from a shop. The timing chain is easy compared to this (way less bolts, hoses, electrical, and chances for failure/screwup), but I guess in some ways I'm glad I did it. It kinda took some of the mystery out of the EFI/multiport injection and some other stuff I guess. And now that they're both done, as long as I didn't screw something up, it should be good to go for quite a long time, which was kinda the point.
But it did take a little over three weeks what with all the other stuff I had going on...
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
Yep.
Let me know when you find an affordable price for this from a shop...This is a job I'm pretty sure I would never do again, especially with a reasonable price from a shop. The timing chain is easy compared to this (way less bolts, hoses, electrical, and chances for failure/screwup), but I guess in some ways I'm glad I did it. It kinda took some of the mystery out of the EFI/multiport injection and some other stuff I guess. And now that they're both done, as long as I didn't screw something up, it should be good to go for quite a long time, which was kinda the point.
But it did take a little over three weeks what with all the other stuff I had going on...
FWIW, a timing chain DOES include all this! You took a shortcut!
Don't worry about three weeks. I have been rebuilding my '93 truck for a year and a half. It should be running inside a month now. Maybe within two weeks time permitting.
rover67
Rising Sun Member
hey man, that thing looks super shiny inside... you guys must've stayed on top of the oil changes 
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
I set my valves to 0.009/0.011 (very loose side of Ted's recommendation) on the stand and for the initial 20 minute run. On a stock engine I would have done 0.008/0.012 like the book said. After the first run, I rechecked the head bolt torque and valve clearance, the bolts were fine but the valves were off. I checked both again at the next two oil changes and the head bolts torqued down a little at 200 miles but have not moved since. The valves needed adjustment at 200 and 1000 miles, but haven't been much off since. I need to pull the valve cover again soon (coming up to 15,000 miles on the engine) and I'm sure they need touching up.
ATLR
0
Good job Matt, glad you got it done!!!
I seem to recall doing a valve adjustment on my old 2F while it was running. Did you do that, Matt? I'm not entirely sure it was a good idea.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
That is a very bad idea on a 22R. Well, unless you like hot oil facials.
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
While it was RUNNING? Tell me you misspoke... I can just see you chasing the screw tappets with a screwdriver and 12mm wrench whilst they are popping up and down...
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
It is possible to chase the adjusters on a 2F with it running. Never could figure out the logic behind trying to do it running, but at least it's possible to do without being coated in oil and (hypothetically) losing a finger. Completely impossible on a 22R with the overhead cam and all the oil being slung around. Not to mention the 22R-E won't run very well at all with the 710 cap off, much less trying with no valve cover! All that modern junk with PCV and vacuum, ya know.While it was RUNNING? Tell me you misspoke... I can just see you chasing the screw tappets with a screwdriver and 12mm wrench whilst they are popping up and down...
Whew! I retorqued the head bolts last night, none of them turned significantly, so I'll check them again in a few thousand miles. Tomorrow I'll reset the valves. I've been baffled by a hesitation/lack of power issue since I got it running last week. Squishy! suggested I reset the throttle position sensor, which I haven't done yet and may not have to. I don't know how involved it is, and I guess if it runs well (which it does now) I won't bother with it.
Last night I also checked the timing and advanced it to 8 degrees BTDC, it was around 5. It seemed to help this morning driving to work, and then I realized that I made that check/adjustment WITHOUT shorting out the diagnostic block!
I thought I had had it shorted when I originally did the timing, but must not have because it would have read -2 degrees BTDC (or 2 degrees ATDC). So after I got out of work, I started the truck up, got the timing light out and shorted the diagnostic block and set it to about 7-8 degrees BTDC (slightly advanced from factory specs), and it has the power it used to and no hesitation that I can distinguish from other road/tire feel!
My dad speculated that because it was so far retarded it was trying to compensate somehow in the ignition and that was causing the hesitation I was feeling. Either way, it seems to be all better now!
And yes Toyota recommends a hot adjustment of the valves, just how hot nobody really knows but technically if the engine is running that's as hot as it's going to get, so that's why I suppose some 2F guys try (succeed?) to adjust their valves with it running. I get it hot, turn it off, and pull the valve cover (for both engines), that seems hot enough for me. The head was still too hot to keep my hand on after sitting for 1 1/2 hours last night with the hood up, so I don't think 2-3 degrees drop while you're adjusting the valves will hurt anything. And like Dave said, I don't like hot-oil facials while trying to adjust my valves.
So, ready to go for another 150,000 miles!
Last night I also checked the timing and advanced it to 8 degrees BTDC, it was around 5. It seemed to help this morning driving to work, and then I realized that I made that check/adjustment WITHOUT shorting out the diagnostic block!
I thought I had had it shorted when I originally did the timing, but must not have because it would have read -2 degrees BTDC (or 2 degrees ATDC). So after I got out of work, I started the truck up, got the timing light out and shorted the diagnostic block and set it to about 7-8 degrees BTDC (slightly advanced from factory specs), and it has the power it used to and no hesitation that I can distinguish from other road/tire feel!My dad speculated that because it was so far retarded it was trying to compensate somehow in the ignition and that was causing the hesitation I was feeling. Either way, it seems to be all better now!
And yes Toyota recommends a hot adjustment of the valves, just how hot nobody really knows but technically if the engine is running that's as hot as it's going to get, so that's why I suppose some 2F guys try (succeed?) to adjust their valves with it running. I get it hot, turn it off, and pull the valve cover (for both engines), that seems hot enough for me. The head was still too hot to keep my hand on after sitting for 1 1/2 hours last night with the hood up, so I don't think 2-3 degrees drop while you're adjusting the valves will hurt anything. And like Dave said, I don't like hot-oil facials while trying to adjust my valves.
So, ready to go for another 150,000 miles!
Rzeppa
Rising Sun Member
I've always questioned that hot versus cold adjustment parameter. I've adjusted while hot, and while at room temperature while during engine assembly, and never noticed a measurable difference. I still try to do it "hot" as I showed Ricardo when he brought his rig over for adjustment. It's what the manual says, so I try to stick to it.
"While running" is totally bogus - there have been many discussions about that on the LCML over the years and the consensus is that this is a thing that is particular to certain V8s, certainly not F or R series engines.
But when I put an engine together (or even just put a head on), I adjust. Then after a few hundred miles, do it again hot and it's exactly where it was when cold. [shrugs shoulders]. Go Figure.
FYI, doing an old school F engine is a cakewalk compared to a later 2F or 22R/22RE as far as how much stuff you have to pull while it's still hot to get the cover off. FJ60s rightly suck in that regard ;-)