Friday afternoon music

[DaveInDenver]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8


"Misirlou"
Dick Dale and the Del Tones

I'm reading a book right now called "The Birth of Loud" by Ian Port. Interesting book about early solid body guitars. What made me think of this video is a story in it. Dick Dale was pretty much an early punk. Sure he wore a suit and seemed clean cut but his early shows at the Rendezvous Room in southern California were very loud and apparently raucous and risque.

What was happening was Dick was destroying those early amps. Not just a little but they'd blow up and sometimes catch components on fire and the speakers cones would shred themselves to death every show. Leo found himself intrigued and building bigger and bigger amps and cabinets until he came up with the Showman and eventually the Dual Showman specifically for him. These are 85W tube amps into two 15" speakers played at the edge of melting down but crystal clean. Heavy metal guitarists, yeah, nothing compared to Dick Dale, Jimi, Chuck Berry and Pete Townsend for loud.

Anyway, I actually did not know Leo Fender was completely deaf in one ear and it was Dick Dale who caused it. Back in those days the technicians and engineers would tweak thing by ear, literally turning the amps to 11 and setting circuit bias based on hiss and buzz. It seems Dick must have bumped the guitar while Leo's head was next to the speaker and it blew his ear drum, which never healed. I haven't found much more about this or if Leo harbored any anger over it. He completed his work for Dick anyway.

Leo was also blind in one eye from an infection he sustained when he was an 8 year old. Think about it. After 1917 he only had one eye (all the time he spent around routers and saws woodworking without any depth perception and to still have all 10 fingers) and all of his work after 1961 he was half deaf.

BTW, the Del Tones in this video I think would have been:
Armon Frank - saxophone
Billy Barber - piano
Rick Rillera - bass guitar
Nick O'Malley - guitar
Jerry Stevens - drums
Barry Rillera - guitar

 

[Cruisertrash]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8


"Misirlou"
Dick Dale and the Del Tones

I'm reading a book right now called "The Birth of Loud" by Ian Port. Interesting book about early solid body guitars. What made me think of this video is a story in it. Dick Dale was pretty much an early punk. Sure he wore a suit and seemed clean cut but his early shows at the Rendezvous Room in southern California were very loud and apparently raucous and risque.

What was happening was Dick was destroying those early amps. Not just a little but they'd blow up and sometimes catch components on fire and the speakers cones would shred themselves to death every show. Leo found himself intrigued and building bigger and bigger amps and cabinets until he came up with the Showman and eventually the Dual Showman specifically for him. These are 85W tube amps into two 15" speakers played at the edge of melting down but crystal clean. Heavy metal guitarists, yeah, nothing compared to Dick Dale, Jimi, Chuck Berry and Pete Townsend for loud.

Anyway, I actually did not know Leo Fender was completely deaf in one ear and it was Dick Dale who caused it. Back in those days the technicians and engineers would tweak thing by ear, literally turning the amps to 11 and setting circuit bias based on hiss and buzz. It seems Dick must have bumped the guitar while Leo's head was next to the speaker and it blew his ear drum, which never healed. I haven't found much more about this or if Leo harbored any anger over it. He completed his work for Dick anyway.

Leo was also blind in one eye from an infection he sustained when he was an 8 year old. Think about it. After 1917 he only had one eye (all the time he spent around routers and saws woodworking without any depth perception and to still have all 10 fingers) and all of his work after 1961 he was half deaf.

BTW, the Del Tones in this video I think would have been:
Armon Frank - saxophone
Billy Barber - piano
Rick Rillera - bass guitar
Nick O'Malley - guitar
Jerry Stevens - drums
Barry Rillera - guitar

Dick Dale was definitely a pioneer, and very loud. Having owned a 1967 Showman, I can verify they are VERY loud. The Dual Showmans are insane.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Dick Dale was definitely a pioneer, and very loud. Having owned a 1967 Showman, I can verify they are VERY loud. The Dual Showmans are insane.

You could have Kenny Pernokis' old one (a '65, still looks to have brown base RCA 5881s and it's D130s).

https://reverb.com/item/85470702-1-owner-all-original-1965-fender-showman-with-rare-2x15-jbl-cab

Weapon of mass sonic destruction. At least in non-doo woop hands. These guys were definitely not Dick Dale, which explains why it's still got probably original 6L6 tubes and transformer in it.






View: https://youtu.be/Sk2Ra65tJxk?si=Rfri6OkFz4cOk2HT

 

[Crash]

Good book worth the read. I have a copy to lend if anyone wants to check it out.

 

[Cruisertrash]

You could have Kenny Pernokis' old one (a '65, still looks to have brown base RCA 5881s and it's D130s).

https://reverb.com/item/85470702-1-owner-all-original-1965-fender-showman-with-rare-2x15-jbl-cab

Weapon of mass sonic destruction. At least in non-doo woop hands. These guys were definitely not Dick Dale, which explains why it's still got probably original 6L6 tubes and transformer in it.

View attachment 140178

View attachment 140179


View: https://youtu.be/Sk2Ra65tJxk?si=Rfri6OkFz4cOk2HT

I prefer 5881s in old Fender amps that call for 6L6s. The 6L6s are big and glassy sounding, but maybe a touch brittle. The 5881s seem to drive harder in the midrange and sound smoother overall. The trade off is you lose some low end (which I EQ out anyway to leave room for the bass), and they bias at a slighter lower wattage which has never bothered me.

I have a matched quad of JAN spec Tung Sol 5881s from 1954. They were NOS when I found them, still in their generic looking milspec packaging - never once opened. I use two of them in my 68 Bassman for recording and have never used the other two. They are precious to me.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's interesting to me the more I learn 'bout guitar things. What's all this Fender stuff, anyhow?

The 5881 Leo used initially is a 23 watt tube, normally you'd bias same as a 6L6GB, plate voltage of 400V max. The 6L6GC that Fender ended up with is a 30W tube, but more importantly can be safe to 500V.

https://tubedata.edebris.com/sheets/049/5/5881.pdf

https://tubedata.edebris.com/sheets/127/6/6L6GC.pdf

I don't know if anyone tries it but the 7581A is the hot rod 6L6GC that can handle 35W dissipation. I bet this might tolerate Leo's, uh, aggressive, designs.

https://tubedata.edebris.com//sheets/135/7/7581A.pdf

 

[Cruisertrash]

It's interesting to me the more I learn 'bout guitar things. What's all this Fender stuff, anyhow?

The 5881 Leo used initially is a 23 watt tube, normally you'd bias same as a 6L6GB, plate voltage of 400V max. The 6L6GC that Fender ended up with is a 30W tube, but more importantly can be safe to 500V.

https://tubedata.edebris.com/sheets/049/5/5881.pdf

https://tubedata.edebris.com/sheets/127/6/6L6GC.pdf

I don't know if anyone tries it but the 7581A is the hot rod 6L6GC that can handle 35W dissipation. I bet this might tolerate Leo's, uh, aggressive, designs.

https://tubedata.edebris.com//sheets/135/7/7581A.pdf

I generally bias the tubes at about 70% of their plate dissipation. Biasing them at 100% would make them last about an hour. Plus you have the internal distortion and crossover distortion (in the Class AB amps) that get wonky beyond 70% bias. And really, where the theorizing ends and the actual biasing of an amp begins things get weird. The 5881s are just happier at a lower bias % than the 6L6/6L6GC tubes.

I would have to check my RCA Receiving Tube Manual but I bet the 7581 has a different pinout than 6L6/5881, hence why I’ve never heard of it being a popular mod. The output transformers may not be spec’d to handle the wattage either, although the Schumacher xformers that Fender used were usually robust and oversized for the job. Anyway, I think Ampeg used that tube in maybe one or two amps in the 60s.

For my money, the 6973 is the most musical and harmonic rich guitar amp output tube there is. Nothing else sounds like it. I have a 63 Gretsch that takes those and I’ll probably never get rid of it.

 

[Cruisertrash]

For me, 70% idle plate dissipation in a push-pull 6L6GC amp is more about tube life. And measuring at idle is a convenience driven from the tools most amp techs have - measuring during actual use is a little more complicated and measuring at idle is a decent approximation that gets the job done on the workbench. I've goosed amps towards 80% and the power tubes last a few months at best. The conversation can get quite technical, but when you're the one paying for the tubes ... the things gets grounded in practicality pretty quickly. Some of that may have to do with the quality of tube manufacturing, but that's a whole different conversation.

Mesa: Don't even get me started on those tube-eating demons. Prone to overheating, prone to melting transformers. Ampeg to some extent as well. Both also love designs - oh wait, let's throw Orange amps in here too - that start with much bigger B+ voltage than, say, Fender amps, and then run tubes far closer to their stated limits. All of these amps have reliability issues. On how many amps have I drilled out charred and conductive parts of the PC or fiber board because components got WAY too hot? More than I'd like to talk about. Is there a way to design them better? Sure, but probably not in a way that makes business sense for a company trying to sell amps. And don't get me started on Ampeg hoovering up obscure tubes from the television industry and building amps around them simply because they could pinch a few pennies - what a curse it is in 2025 to have to search for a triple triode 6K11 or an unbalanced dual triode 12DW7 because some bean counter in 1969 thought it would be a good idea to tell the designers what to do. If you know anybody looking, I'm selling my 300 watt Ampeg SVT bass amp haha!

Note: The battle between clean and distorted results from tube amp design is a fascinating revolution. Certainly the amp designers of the time, let's say up until the late 50s, were focused on what was "proper" a non-distorted signal, because all of the existing design literature was focused on the technical perfection of the circuit. Then you have the end users who, over time, "warmed up" (pun intended) to the distorted sound. It sounded good, so why not turn the volume knob until it made that sound? Many pages back on this thread I posted the song "Five Spot" by Otis Span, which features a 22 year old and relatively unknown BB King acting as a hired studio gun for somebody who was a very popular artist at the time. He's featured as the lead guitar player and for 1954 his tone is very distorted. It's way ahead of its time. He wasn't the first, but it's an early example of guitar as a lead instrument with an amp turned up to a level that was considered "wrong" simply because it sounded good. Later you get Leo and his designers willy nilly throwing NFB at every stage of the amp because they couldn't be arsed to just redesign the amps completely. Don't get me started on Fender's move to ultralinear transformers in the late 70s - while perhaps an improvement in a white-labcoat-technical sense, they certainly sounded far worse than earlier designs. This stuff became the legacy they're tied to, so you see modern reissues of amps that could be greatly improved upon. I don't think they were geniuses. I think the Radiotron and other design handbooks that came out of the advent of octal tubes in the 30s were the blueprint for all these guys back then. Look at a 5E3 Deluxe, or any of Gibson or Valco's offerings from the 50s. It's all just tube cookbook stuff. And those cookbooks were driven from the manufacturers need to sell tubes - "hey, if we show people some basic uses for these new tube designs, people will start designing around them and buy more of our stuff."

Akain always has big opinions with lots of science in his faux white papers. Maybe they could legitimately be considered real white papers, I don't know - and it seems not worth my time to parse that out. I do believe his testing and results. But now go build an amp that meets at the crossroads of sounding good and hitting a budget. That's a bit harsh - there's room in the market for boutique-priced amps, and Aiken is certainly a smart guy. He always just comes off as a whiney know-it-all to me. Shut up, grab a little 5w Oahu amp from the 1950s, turn it up until it sounds good ... and play. Yeah it's a crappy Radiotron cookbook all-octal amp with a field coil speaker ... but it's inspiring. They already figured out - even if Valco wasn't maximizing the design specs - how to make an amp that consumers could afford, would sound good, and last almost forever.

I have an Airline amp from the late 40s. The Airline-branded tubes (of RCA manufacture) all still test fantastic. Bias the thing in the recommended way, which may not be technically maximized, and enjoy playing it for the next 70 years. My point with all of this is don't miss the forest for the trees.

 

[DaveInDenver]

And don't get me started on Ampeg hoovering up obscure tubes from the television industry and building amps around them simply because they could pinch a few pennies - what a curse it is in 2025 to have to search for a triple triode 6K11 or an unbalanced dual triode 12DW7 because some bean counter in 1969 thought it would be a good idea to tell the designers what to do. If you know anybody looking, I'm selling my 300 watt Ampeg SVT bass amp haha!

Just reading about the SVT. The 12DW7 really is an odd choice. Does feel like an cheap opportunity buy to not just use a 12AX7. Looks like JJ is (or was) making them again.

JJ Electronic - ECC832 - 12DW7

JJ Electronic - Vacuum tubes, Capacitors, Amplifiers

www.jj-electronic.com

Why couldn't you just put in a regular 12AX7 with reduced gain for the lower μ side 12AU7 (pins 1, 2, 3) half? I try R6 and R7 both at 220K and R25 should be 4.7K. Seems pretty simple, so there is probably something I'm missing?

 

[Cruisertrash]

I should NEVER have cursed Ampeg earlier today. I went to go let a prospective buyer test drive the SVT I have for sale and the internal PCB mounted fuse blew immediately upon startup. Four years of trouble free service with this particular unit and it let me down today. What a boat anchor. This useless piece of trash must weigh 120lbs, but it’s home and on my workbench now.

I’ll get to the rest later, but will say this: put the books down and use your ears. It will be quite refreshing and very rewarding

 

[mcgaskins]

A day early, but I finally understand the lyrics now:


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDdLXKVv6Sn/?igsh=YnFwd3VxcnZxZWJi

 

[fyffer]

Who would have thunk!
I just bought myself a politician. An Original by MonaLisa Twins


View: https://youtu.be/_QAKz_cxTlQ

 

[Cruisertrash]

Who would have thunk!
I just bought myself a politician. An Original by MonaLisa Twins


View: https://youtu.be/_QAKz_cxTlQ

This is cool. Never heard of them. Bonus points for two Rickenbackers in the video.

 

[DaveInDenver]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke6KUtcG9jY



"Woo Hoo"
The 5.6.7.8s
Bomb The Twist (1996)

You may remember this song from Kill Bill Vol 1 and the history of Tarantino hearing the song shopping for jeans in Tokyo or something like that. The 5.6.7.8s had a couple of other songs in the movie and have a smattering of appearances elsewhere, commercials and such.

You may not know it's a remake, originally a single (and later album) by a Richmond, VA, band that seems to have only ever made the this and broke up apparently in less than year when they failed to find more success.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2UPIzGZrSA


"Woo Hoo"
The Rock-A-Teens
Woo-Hoo (1959)

The band was:
Vic Mizelle - vocals and guitar
Milton (Boo) Walke - guitar
Bill Cook - guitar
Paul Dixon - bass
Bill Smith - drums
Eddie Robinson - saxophone

 

[Cruisertrash]

The 5678s rule

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah, I was obsessed and had to find the album after seeing the movie.

I only recently learned about The Rock-A-Teens and that it was a cover. I've a far, far, far from an encyclopedic knowledge of the fossil relic rock-and-or-roll music history. I know more today than I did yesterday, though I fear what was pushed off the stack to learn it.

The Story of Woo-Hoo!

The unexpected rise and bumpy fall of the Rock-A-Teens.

www.styleweekly.com

Turns out Vic passed in 2017. RIP

Victor Clarence Mizelle - Affinity Funeral Service | Richmond VA Funeral Home

In LovingMemory Victor Clarence Mizelle Sep 07, 1934Mar 25, 2017 Obituary message MIZELLE, Victor, 82, of Richmond, passed away peacefully on Saturday, March 25, 2017. He is survived by his son, Danny (Lori);

affinityfuneralservice.com