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Chlorinated brake cleaner ban

SteveH

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,183
Location
Colo Springs
As of yesterday, the EPA is banning all consumer sales of chlorinated brake cleaner (among other things with Tri-chlor or Per-chlor) within 12 mo.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/bi...est-actions-under-nations-chemical-safety-law

Advance Auto has their 'house brand' chlorinated brake cleaner on sale right now for $9 for two, 19 oz cans. Good price.

If you like chlorinated, get it now! Otherwise, don't worry about it.
 

Notyourmomslx450

GIG 'EM GILL
Staff member
Cruise Moab Committee
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
4,262
Location
Westminster
The newest brake parts cleaner formula SUCKS!! I'm sure this will be no better
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,929
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
Man that sucks (as does the non-chlorinated brake cleaner). I always carry that stuff to degrease parts during trailside repairs, not to mention cleaning brake parts. I'll try to remember to stock up.
 

allen.wrench

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
731
Location
Syracuse, UT
I switched to isopropyl alcohol exclusively a year or so ago and have no regrets. Works just as good, maybe even better as it doesn't leave any residue and is cheaper and much less offensive odor.

Totally agree. Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) is also FAR less harmful to your skin, attacks fewer plastics, and it's a great disinfectant. It is less volatile compared to non-chlorinated, a large portion being acetone, so it takes longer to evaporate and harder to catch fire.

IPA is also far less expensive. A 2 quart pack of 70% IPA is about $4-5 at Costco. So maybe $10 for a gallon. While "brake cleaner" is maybe on the order of $50-60/gallon. Straight acetone at the hardware store is maybe $40/gallon. Tho, that Advanced Auto sale is a definitely a solid good deal.

Don't get me wrong though. In CERTAIN cases real brake cleaner or straight acetone is GREAT. In general I will reach for IPA. But it's funny for the last few days I was thinking how I could have a squirt bottle of acetone that refills instead of buying pressurized spray cans. A few years ago I got some generic "chemical resistant" spray nozzles I use for a lot of stuff. I intend to test one of these nozzles with acetone. If anyone is interested, I'll report back.

The EPA ban is inconvenient, but we're smart and able to figure out better SOLUTIONS. Haha, and chemistry puns are great! 😆

Allen
 

DaveInDenver

Rising Sun Ham Guru
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
14,240
Location
Grand Junction
@allen.wrench, the 70% dilute stuff you get at the pharmacy is not identical as the IPA you use at work. Both are 2-propanol (e.g. isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol) but by mixing it with water the cosmetic stuff holds fat and oil in solution and makes it somewhat gentler on your skin. This serves to make it considerably less effective at cleaning and will help the grease and oil spread, like, well, oil on water. This is sort of like comparing nail polish remover and true acetone. The stuff they add to polish remover to make it not eat your skin as badly and smell so much reduce it's effectiveness as a solvent in the shop.

The IPA you see on work benches is 99% and works better. But it does require you use lots of clean rags since lacking the water all the IPA does is dissolve stuff and would just leave it sitting there otherwise. As a point of comparison the spray IPA CRC sells is also 70% IPA but the 30% is HFC-152, which is the areosol propellent so it's not diluted on the work surface.

Most non-chlorinated brake cleaner is mostly acetone, which is just IPA that's been oxidized. Or in reverse you can make acetone into IPA by hydrogenation. If you look on the MSDS sheets for non-chlorinated brake cleaner you'll usually see it's acetone and CO2. I wonder if the CO2 is chosen chemically to dehydrogenate as well as propellant. Dunno on that.

Just my $0.02 but I switched to non-chlorinated cleaner years ago because I don't like breathing VOCs and wearing a respirator all the time using the chlorinated stuff. I don't like losing the choice but I haven't used old brake cleaner in years anyway so on the ground it's not a big deal for me. Should say here, too, that even non-chlorinated isn't exactly healthy and the brake dust isn't good either. But I'm old enough to remember when you had to worry about both brake cleaner and asbestos in the friction material. It's truly amazing any of us lived past 27.

So IPA or acetone, it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Both work at the task, choose on convenience and cost. I rather like the idea of bulk IPA and spray bottles. My experience with those chemical resistant sprayer is mixed though. I'll be watching how that works out for you Allen.

Fun fact, they normally use tetrachloroethylene in regular brake cleaner. That's also what is used as dry cleaning fluid. Being a chlorinated organic when you expose it to heat and UV you can reform into phosgene.


This is something that crosses over perhaps because people who weld know you need to clean, clean, clean some more. Someone years ago had a light bulb go off and used brake cleaner to degrease their work. The old chlorinated stuff killed them. You need to use a non-chlorinated chemical that flashes quickly and completely like IPA or acetone to clean your work, so non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a pretty good pre-weld cleaner. That's another reason I switched. Just one chemical around in bulk that can do a few things equally mediocre.
 
Last edited:

allen.wrench

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
731
Location
Syracuse, UT
Mmm phosgene gas is bad! Yea. No thank you. Another reason to stick with acetone and/or IPA.

Good point about 70% IPA. I have wondered if mixing with white vinegar might help clean even better. I have found a 50/50 vinegar (5%) mix with water is pretty good for cleaning glass. I'm a few cases I felt it might clean better than Windex. I save the 99% IPA for electrical stuff where I prefer to leave as little water as possible behind.

I'll keep you posted how the spray nozzle does with acetone.

Allen
 

BritKLR

Vice Commander
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
2,178
Location
ATC HQ - Nederland, Colo.
@allen.wrench, the 70% dilute stuff you get at the pharmacy is not identical as the IPA you use at work. Both are 2-propanol (e.g. isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol) but by mixing it with water the cosmetic stuff holds fat and oil in solution and makes it somewhat gentler on your skin. This serves to make it considerably less effective at cleaning and will help the grease and oil spread, like, well, oil on water. This is sort of like comparing nail polish remover and true acetone. The stuff they add to polish remover to make it not eat your skin as badly and smell so much reduce it's effectiveness as a solvent in the shop.

The IPA you see on work benches is 99% and works better. But it does require you use lots of clean rags since lacking the water all the IPA does is dissolve stuff and would just leave it sitting there otherwise. As a point of comparison the spray IPA CRC sells is also 70% IPA but the 30% is HFC-152, which is the areosol propellent so it's not diluted on the work surface.

Most non-chlorinated brake cleaner is mostly acetone, which is just IPA that's been oxidized. Or in reverse you can make acetone into IPA by hydrogenation. If you look on the MSDS sheets for non-chlorinated brake cleaner you'll usually see it's acetone and CO2. I wonder if the CO2 is chosen chemically to dehydrogenate as well as propellant. Dunno on that.

Just my $0.02 but I switched to non-chlorinated cleaner years ago because I don't like breathing VOCs and wearing a respirator all the time using the chlorinated stuff. I don't like losing the choice but I haven't used old brake cleaner in years anyway so on the ground it's not a big deal for me.

So IPA or acetone, it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Both work at the task, choose on convenience and cost. I rather like the idea of bulk IPA and spray bottles. My experience with those chemical resistant sprayer is mixed though. I'll be watching how that works out for you Allen.

Fun fact, they normally use tetrachloroethylene in regular brake cleaner. That's also what is used as dry cleaning fluid. Being a chlorinated organic when you expose it to heat and UV you can reform into phosgene.


This is something that crosses over perhaps because people who weld know you need to clean, clean, clean some more. Someone years ago had a light bulb go off and used brake cleaner to degrease their work. The old chlorinated stuff killed them. You need to use a non-chlorinated chemical that flashes quickly and completely like IPA or acetone to clean your work, so non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a pretty good pre-weld cleaner. That's another reason I switched. Just one chemical around in bulk that can do a few things equally mediocre.
Yep......that sh@#$ will kill you. Don't mess with it!

Phosgene and phosphine were/are byproducts of Red-P variant Meth labs and in the early 2000's we lost some LEO's/TFO's to them being exposed to the gases (before CLET Teams were created). In 2016, when I was the Chief up here in Ned, we had a guy die in his house messing around with it and I still have two friends that were medically retired from the DEA because they got F'd up by it.

Be Careful!
 
Last edited:

DaveInDenver

Rising Sun Ham Guru
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
14,240
Location
Grand Junction
Yep......that sh@#$ will kill you. Don't mess with it!

Phosgene and phosphine were/are byproducts of Red-P variant Meth labs and in the early 2000's we lost some LEO's/TFO's to them being exposed to the gases (before CLET Teams were created). In 2016, when I was the Chief up here in Ned, we had a guy die in his house messing around with it and I still have two friends that were medically retired from the DEA because they got F'd up by it.

Be Careful!
Just so's peeps don't think it's hysteria. Acetone and IPA are much less risky in this regard. Gloves, don't confuse them for your beer, good air flow They do more eagerly burn and explode, though.

https://www.envirofluid.com/articles/tetrachloroethylene-a-deadly-danger-in-brake-cleaner

https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
 

Inukshuk

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,558
Location
Denver, CO
Never knew that about alcohol. I just drink enough and then don't care about cleaning.

BTW, industrial grade alcohol is available on Amazon.
 

Inukshuk

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,558
Location
Denver, CO

LARGEONE

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
3,293
Location
Broomfield, CO
Dang. I should really look closer at what I’m cleaning with!!! I just grab whatever is close and go to town…diesel fuel, original CFC brake cleaner, purple power, etc. No wonder I have no short term memory any more!
 

allen.wrench

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
731
Location
Syracuse, UT
Can confirm after a few hours the sprayer nozzle is now NFG from acetone. RIP. Bummer. It was convenient and worth a try.

Guess I'll invest in a Hazmat Fear pressurized spray bottle. They say they'll handle oils and solvents. Just not dihydrogen monoxide.

Allen
 

BritKLR

Vice Commander
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
2,178
Location
ATC HQ - Nederland, Colo.
Classic but, it still applies!

IMG_7788.jpeg
 

allen.wrench

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
731
Location
Syracuse, UT
Took apart the dickered sprayer nozzle to see what the acetone attacked. Seems the plunger is the only casualty. Everything else seemed alright. I bought these years ago to use on whatever and this was worth a shot. If I remember right, they use viton which clearly doesn't like acetone. Idk maybe there's rebuild kits that use something better than viton for dealing with acetone.

But also a few days ago I bought this Hazardous Fart sprayer can. The valve core was junk quality, but easy to replace. Seems like the rest of it will do better because it's soft goods look like teflon. I'll report back if anyone is interested.

Allen

20241220_075623.jpg
 

DanielChase

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
1,103
Location
Englewood, CO
@allen.wrench, the 70% dilute stuff you get at the pharmacy is not identical as the IPA you use at work. Both are 2-propanol (e.g. isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol) but by mixing it with water the cosmetic stuff holds fat and oil in solution and makes it somewhat gentler on your skin. This serves to make it considerably less effective at cleaning and will help the grease and oil spread, like, well, oil on water. This is sort of like comparing nail polish remover and true acetone. The stuff they add to polish remover to make it not eat your skin as badly and smell so much reduce it's effectiveness as a solvent in the shop.

The IPA you see on work benches is 99% and works better. But it does require you use lots of clean rags since lacking the water all the IPA does is dissolve stuff and would just leave it sitting there otherwise. As a point of comparison the spray IPA CRC sells is also 70% IPA but the 30% is HFC-152, which is the areosol propellent so it's not diluted on the work surface.

Most non-chlorinated brake cleaner is mostly acetone, which is just IPA that's been oxidized. Or in reverse you can make acetone into IPA by hydrogenation. If you look on the MSDS sheets for non-chlorinated brake cleaner you'll usually see it's acetone and CO2. I wonder if the CO2 is chosen chemically to dehydrogenate as well as propellant. Dunno on that.

Just my $0.02 but I switched to non-chlorinated cleaner years ago because I don't like breathing VOCs and wearing a respirator all the time using the chlorinated stuff. I don't like losing the choice but I haven't used old brake cleaner in years anyway so on the ground it's not a big deal for me. Should say here, too, that even non-chlorinated isn't exactly healthy and the brake dust isn't good either. But I'm old enough to remember when you had to worry about both brake cleaner and asbestos in the friction material. It's truly amazing any of us lived past 27.

So IPA or acetone, it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Both work at the task, choose on convenience and cost. I rather like the idea of bulk IPA and spray bottles. My experience with those chemical resistant sprayer is mixed though. I'll be watching how that works out for you Allen.

Fun fact, they normally use tetrachloroethylene in regular brake cleaner. That's also what is used as dry cleaning fluid. Being a chlorinated organic when you expose it to heat and UV you can reform into phosgene.


This is something that crosses over perhaps because people who weld know you need to clean, clean, clean some more. Someone years ago had a light bulb go off and used brake cleaner to degrease their work. The old chlorinated stuff killed them. You need to use a non-chlorinated chemical that flashes quickly and completely like IPA or acetone to clean your work, so non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a pretty good pre-weld cleaner. That's another reason I switched. Just one chemical around in bulk that can do a few things equally mediocre.
I used the bookmark function for the first time today.
 

allen.wrench

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
731
Location
Syracuse, UT
Crazy idea hit me last night and this thread is the nearest bestest place I can think of. If there's a better thread that exists and someone says so, I'm happy to move.

So short question: Anyone try to spray Fluid Film (FF) with a refillable/portable spray can like the Maddox? :D

Longer back story: There are definitely sprayers for FF using compressed air and a gun similar to a paint gun. But they have a pesky hose attached. Last night I was under my truck prepping for Cruise Moab and spot treating for rust with an 11oz can of FF and that's when this discussion came to my mind. If I have acetone in a refillable can like Maddox (or similar), instead of buying brand name Brake Clean, then why can't I do FF in a refillable and portable can?

Maybe thinning the FF with mineral spirits would help? Or tinkering with the sprayer's nozzle?

Allen
 
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