Bad noise on startup - FJ60

[Cruisertrash]

Looking for a little help this morning... Drove to the hardware store and the truck started and ran as normal. Gauges looked fine. I came out from the store and tried to start my truck and was greeted by a metal-on-metal rotational sound. It is not a “grinding” sound, not a ticking, and not a “teeth chewing themselves apart” sound either. You know in old Kung-fu movies when the samurai draws his blade out of its sheath? It sounds like that - a scraping noise, and definitely rotational. Starter? Banging on it doesn’t change anything. As an amateur mechanic I’m at a loss here. What do you say, great people of the Rising Sun forum? I wish I could upload a video for you, but that doesn’t seem to be possible.

checked the following:
-All fluids good in engine bay are good
-Motor turns by hand
-Starting in neutral so it’s in the engine bay, not transmission or transfer case (I think)
-Placed phone in engine bay and took a few videos while starting, everything turns as it should
-Everything attached to the engine is tight - dizzy, starter, oil filter and cooler brackets, all accessory brackets (PS pump, alt, smog pump)
-Radiator fan turns freely
-Engine bay video show smog pump pulley turning
-No new leaks

 

[Cruisertrash]

Uploaded a video to YouTube:

 

[Cruisertrash]

Video 2 - engine bay looking at smog pump:

Video 3 - engine bay on top of air cleaner looking down at starter:

 

[J1000]

Does the noise change if you depress the clutch pedal?

 

[OHUZJ100]

Sounds like a starter solenoid retracting. Is that even a thing on a vehicle that old?

 

[Cruisertrash]

@OHUZJ100 Starter is one of my suspects. Smog pump is the other. Got it started with no awful sound and now there’s ticking from the front end of the motor. Belts and pulleys all seam to be good. There was no play on any pulleys when I checked. That sound is usually associated with smog pump on its way out.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

sounds a lot like the smog pump to me. If I watch #2 carefully it appears as though the belt stops or slips whenI hear the noise

similar sound to when mine went buh-bye in NM.

 

[Cruisertrash]

sounds a lot like the smog pump to me. If I watch #2 carefully it appears as though the belt stops or slips whenI hear the noise

similar sound to when mine went buh-bye in NM.

It looks like that in the video in hindsight, but that was me only turning the key very briefly. Still, sounds like it might be the smog pump. PO gave me a “spare” but the bolts holding the back on are 1/2” (not metric), and the inside is filled with oily spot - a lot of it - and pieces of carbon vanes. I suspect it’s not even for a Cruiser.

 

[MDH33]

I agree with Shawn, sounds like seized smog. Starter sounds healthy. Easy test is cut the belt to smog and start it momentarily (waterpump won't be spinning, so shut it off if it starts). Then tow it home to replace smog pump.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Last year my PS pump front seal blew and barfed all of my ATF all over the smog pump. I kind of figured this day would be coming....

 

[Cruisertrash]

Thanks for the responses yesterday everybody.Truck eventually started up fine (after two hours of poking and prodding in the True Value parking lot). It got to the grocery store later on too. When you pop the hood there’s a definite ticking noise at idle - sounds like out-of-spec valves, but it’s not. Stethoscope says it’s coming from PS pump and Smog pump.

Several Mud posts recommend a place called B-Z Rebuilders in LA. Apparently that’s who SOR uses for their rebuilt smog pumps, and they are an old school, rebuild-to-perfection type of shop. $195 + $70 core seams like a pretty decent price for an NLA item as important as this. Hell, people are asking $750 for the goddam AM radio out of a 60 ... I’ll pay $265 for a fresh smog pump.

Might just get a gear reduction starter too. I think this truck is running the original. At some point I need to switch from whack-a-mole to preventative maintenance.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

if you want to try your 60 manual steering you can eliminate the smog pump from the mix by pulling one of the belts and just connecting the alt, waterpump (no PS or smog). that may also help identify the culprit. I drove back from Moab one year with that setup.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@CardinalFJ60 I may try that later today. The way this PS pump runs, it’s almost like manual steering anyway.

 

[Rzeppa]

The way to kill a smog pump in a 60 is leaking PS pump, which sits just above the smog pump. That was what happened to both my 60 and my daughter's.

 

[RDub]

I bought a rebuilt smog pump from B-Z Rebuilders for my 60 a year ago. The pump is working well and they were great to work with. The pump did make a few funky noises during the first 50 miles or so, but stopped after that. They warn about odd noises during vane break in, so I assume that is what was going on. Still blows air fine now.

 

[RDub]

Oh, and MUD folks said to tell B-Z you got their name from the MUD forum and they would discount the price. That didn't work for me, but it's worth a try to ask.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Oh, and MUD folks said to tell B-Z you got their name from the MUD forum and they would discount the price. That didn't work for me, but it's worth a try to ask.

Thanks for the feedback, it’s good to know that other folks had a good experience with them. They don’t have any cores so I’m on the lookout for one now. And yeah I asked about the Mud discount - no dice.

I got a core smog pump from the PO of this truck, but after looking at it I don’t think it’s for a 2F motor. The case is different, mounting points look different, the internal cylinder/hub only has a spot for one vane (I think the 60 pumps had 3) .... it’s also full -absolutely FULL - of oily crud. No idea how that could happen unless it was used to catch oil for an oil change and then somebody threw dirt in it.

@Rzeppa My PS pump pulley shaft seal blew on a trail last summer and dumped all the fluid on the smog pump. It also ran into the flywheel inspection cover/clutch area causing a lot of smoke - I had to atop for about an hour to let things cool off and to pull the cover and mop up the ATF. I rebuilt it and it still has a slow leak, so I’ve been waiting on the smog pump to go. I need to sort all that out when installing a new smog pump.

 

[Rzeppa]

I got a core smog pump from the PO of this truck, but after looking at it I don’t think it’s for a 2F motor. The case is different, mounting points look different, the internal cylinder/hub only has a spot for one vane (I think the 60 pumps had 3)

All Land Cruiser smog pumps have 1 vane. 60 pumps have different locations/orientations for the fittings than 40 pumps do, just has to do with the way the hoses are routed under the hood. 40 pumps have the relief valve integrated with the pump itself, on 60s the relief valve is mounted separately. As far as cores, I wouldn't be surprised if whoever's taking the core didn't care exactly which model Land Cruiser the core was coming from. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota used the same smog pump across many different models, just as they do with ignitors.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@Rzeppa interesting. I looked through a couple of threads on Mud where folks rebuilt the pump themselves and thought I saw 3 vanes. Maybe I got it wrong. I’ll have to take a closer look at the mounting bracket bracket and this oil/crud-filled pump later today. Maybe it WILL work. I sent BZ rebuilders some pictures and they weren’t sure it was the right one - they told me they would rebuild it anyway and that it would “probably work”. It made me a little skeptical.

 

[60wag]

The pump is supposed to have 3 vanes in it. The inlet and exit pipes bolted to the pump are different for different applications. If the pipes on yours are in ok shape, you might hang on to those when sending the pump out as they may send a different pump back that has been serviced. If the rebuilt pump has the wrong pipes, it sucks. I got at least one of the Cardone rebuilds with the wrong pipes.