Adventures in 4Runner'ing

[DouglasVB]

So this happened this weekend... I was having too much fun working on the truck to actually go 4x4ing. Whoops!

Not pictured are two lights that shine out to the right and left. These are specifically for setting up camp at night.

I'm finishing up wiring details for switches in the cab and I am planning to uprate the relay for the light bar (currently rated for 30A continuous but not accounting for engine bay heat). Also I need to switch out the main fuse for the fuse panel I'm running the lights on for a circuit breaker with a higher rated current. I'll be drawing about 42 amps total (about 500 watts of LEDs) if all of the lights are on. Currently I have a 30 amp fuse for the whole fuse panel. I'm not terribly comfortable with putting in a 50 amp fuse. I'd rather have a 50 amp circuit breaker. The reason being that I don't terribly trust the fuse holder that is rated at 60 amps but being from a local auto parts store... I'm not confident in the wire gauge.

Tomorrow I need to pick up some small gauge wire (~18-20 gauge) to run into the cab for the switches I will be installing. I should be all set for the spooky night run for Halloween!

In the future I'll put rock lights in the wheel wells. That will happen after the SASing this winter.

 

[DaveInDenver]

SDORI/Roger Brown ball joint spacers, Northwest Offroad Stage 2 rear springs, OME shocks. Spend your money on Air Lockers and gearing for 33" pizza cutters (I recommend 4.88, but I had 5.29 and they were nice off highway, but slow as molasses in January on interstates).

Out the door and on the Rubicon for $3,000.

Get the generosity of someone in the club to weld up sliders (this is critical). Drop the money for Budbuilt skid plates. You will do 93% of trails out there successfully. Spend all your savings on gasoline and beer. Also highly recommend front and rear bumpers, Engel fridge. Dual cases or a 4.7 gear set help tremendously.

What would Dean do?


Stop over thinking it and JUST GO PLACES.

 

[DouglasVB]

Relevant: https://youtu.be/ozfGeGYe-lY



Point taken, Dave.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Seriously, you don't need 90% of the crap you think you do.







It took me 44 years to figure that out.

 

[DouglasVB]

With regards to the lights, I have so many because I want to be able to see at night if I'm on a trail. I've been having less than perfect eyesight at night in the last few years so I feel that an investment (a very low-cost investment thanks to Amazon and Chinese manufacturers) in making the trail look like day even in pitch blackness is well worth it.

 

[DaveInDenver]

This is why you do it. Friends, family, experiences. Don't let the details distract from that.

 

[HoneyBadger]

More lights....
Always a good thing.

 

[ToyodaTocco]

 

[DouglasVB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMekQj5w7MU

 

[ToyodaTocco]

Ok, so stuff you still need just to do the front:

hysteer $383.20
shock hoops $34 for ford f-250 or $69 for allpro
brake lines $34 each side or $95 for the full set (which you will need)
wheel spacers $44.50 each (you will need two)
shocks $99 each
new spring bushings $4 each
steering stabilizer $89
vented rotors $59 each

for a grand total of approx. $964.2 (give or take a few dollars due to quantity you need)

That's with using the springs, ubolts, shackles and hanger that you have already.

Or you can buy every new with the sas kit from allpro for $1479 and take an additional 15% if you order today (last day for the discount)

OR>>>>>>>>>

Do what Dave says and stay ifs.

ball joint spacers $76
new shocks all the way around $99 each (estimate)
new pizza cutter tires $200 each (estimate)

Either way your buying new shocks and tires so that's a wash. And since your rear is already lifted, basically $76.

I personally would stay ifs for now. Gear to 4.88 (which came stock in some auto trans 2nd gen 4runners), throw some arb's in, run 33's and have fun. At the end of next year if you still want to sas it then do it.

My .02

 

[DouglasVB]

 

[AxleIke]

I'd only add to whats been said on the last few pages:

If you want to SAS at all, I would not put much into the IFS (lockers, gears, etc...) Its the same cost for the Solid axle stuff, and you will be lucky to get half of what you pay for it when you sell it. Spending money twice is not so good.

If you are REALLY set on only doing exploring/moderate 4x4ing (as as been said and shown, you can do some tough things with the IFS), and you are SURE you'll never want more, and you don't mind wrenching on the IFS to keep it going, then for sure, get the lockers and such.

You seem really set on the SAS. If you don't want to tackle it this winter, and want to wait a year to learn more, you can get a locker for the rear. It will cost a little extra to put it in with the stock gears, and then re-gear later, but you'll have a TON of fun next summer.

What I would actually do, if you want to wait a year, is buy a Toyota elocker. You should be able to get one for 400 bucks or so. Make sure its the 4.10 ratio (pretty sure Justin was trying to sell my old one not that long ago). Justin or someone can help you make the mods to your axle housing over a day on a weekend (tiny bit of welding, and grinding, and you gotta drill and tap a couple holes). You can then just regear the elocker when you go SAS, its selectable just like the ARB, and it will hold up fine to a 35" tire. You get a locker, don't have to pay for an install, and you can take a year to see what is best for you.

Otherwise, I'd just SAS it this winter. Trust me, if you really want something, a compromise won't make you happy, and spending money twice, as I said, is not that fun.

 

[AxleIke]

Ok, so stuff you still need just to do the front:

hysteer $383.20
shock hoops $34 for ford f-250 or $69 for allpro
brake lines $34 each side or $95 for the full set (which you will need)
wheel spacers $44.50 each (you will need two)
shocks $99 each
new spring bushings $4 each
steering stabilizer $89
vented rotors $59 each

for a grand total of approx. $964.2 (give or take a few dollars due to quantity you need)

That's with using the springs, ubolts, shackles and hanger that you have already.

Or you can buy every new with the sas kit from allpro for $1479 and take an additional 15% if you order today (last day for the discount)

OR>>>>>>>>>

Do what Dave says and stay ifs.

ball joint spacers $76
new shocks all the way around $99 each (estimate)
new pizza cutter tires $200 each (estimate)

Either way your buying new shocks and tires so that's a wash. And since your rear is already lifted, basically $76.

I personally would stay ifs for now. Gear to 4.88 (which came stock in some auto trans 2nd gen 4runners), throw some arb's in, run 33's and have fun. At the end of next year if you still want to sas it then do it.

My .02

If you want to wheel the IFS, you need to add the Total chaos Idler arm, which is somewhere around 400 bucks. I'd also invest in some sort of new tie rod adjustment sleeve.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you want to wheel the IFS, you need to add the Total chaos Idler arm, which is somewhere around 400 bucks. I'd also invest in some sort of new tie rod adjustment sleeve.

I have a Total Chaos idler and it's the bee's knees but Roger Brown's bushings in a known good idler is more than sufficient for most situations and are actually better in that you don't need to drill the taper out of the relay rod like you must with the TC.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/IdlerArm.shtml

Also using a TC idler requires other compromises, such as the need to trim your bumper (at least I did with my ARB).

If you do break a bronze bushing upgraded idler then the TC is the next option, but I wouldn't jump straight to it if I had it to do over. When I got the TC it was cheaper than $400 but the bronze bushings didn't exist. It's cheap to try the upgraded idler and if you find you really do eat them regularly, then I would agree that SAS makes more sense than beefing up the IFS to that level. The only people who need Total Chaos idlers are desert trucks and stubborn knuckleheads.

 

[ScaldedDog]

One of the problems with asking for folk's opinions is that you get them. Lots of smart people have offered good advice here. I've learned from this thread, and that's after owning IFS or SAS rigs for 17 years.

The only other thing I'll add, for now, is to ask if you like wrenching, wheeling, or both? If both, you gotta have something to do this winter, so you might as well work on your truck, and a SAS is that opportunity. If you're into this mostly for the wheeling - and there's no shame in that! - do what you must to increase reliability, and run what you brung.

Mark

 

[AxleIke]

I have a Total Chaos idler and it's the bee's knees but Roger Brown's bushings in a known good idler is more than sufficient for most situations and are actually better in that you don't need to drill the taper out of the relay rod like you must with the TC.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/IdlerArm.shtml

Also using a TC idler requires other compromises, such as the need to trim your bumper (at least I did with my ARB).

If you do break a bronze bushing upgraded idler then the TC is the next option, but I wouldn't jump straight to it if I had it to do over. When I got the TC it was cheaper than $400 but the bronze bushings didn't exist. It's cheap to try the upgraded idler and if you find you really do eat them regularly, then I would agree that SAS makes more sense than beefing up the IFS to that level. The only people who need Total Chaos idlers are desert trucks and stubborn knuckleheads.

I'm a stubborn knucklehead to be sure

However, The bronze bushings are only so good. The arm bends right at the joint under hard wheeling, and ball joint spacers only make that easier. I exhausted every option, including that one, before the TC arm.

I agree, however, that the TC arm is ONLY needed if you plan to go all out with lockers and gearing and then try to go run harder trails. For a smallish tire (33's or less) with a rear locker, and doing most moderate trails, the bronze bushings are just fine. Even still, I'd run the balljoint spacers relaxed back to stock height or close. Using them to lift results in higher tierod angles, and only bends the arms that much easier.

One of the problems with asking for folk's opinions is that you get them. Lots of smart people have offered good advice here. I've learned from this thread, and that's after owning IFS or SAS rigs for 17 years.

The only other thing I'll add, for now, is to ask if you like wrenching, wheeling, or both? If both, you gotta have something to do this winter, so you might as well work on your truck, and a SAS is that opportunity. If you're into this mostly for the wheeling - and there's no shame in that! - do what you must to increase reliability, and run what you brung.

Mark

Mark sums it up well. Nicely put.

 

[DouglasVB]

I'm definitely a guy who needs a project to keep from going stir crazy. At the rate I'm going with upsizing my projects, I'll build a house in a few years. Actually I might build a "tiny house" next summer for my parents for their property in the mountains in California.

So I've pretty much decided to go down the SAS swap route. To those ends, I have cleaned out and reorganized the garage (and donated a 4runner bed full of stuff to Goodwill... why did I even have all that stuff?). This weekend, I am hoping to button up the Honda Pacific Coast PC800 fuel injection project so that I can move both motorcycles in and out of the garage as needed. That will be key to being able to put the 4runner in the garage without displacing Heather's car. That car is her so it gets first priority over everything else.

The PC800 project's last little details are 1) plumb in a permanent return line for fuel from the fuel pump, 2) track down where noise is being introduced into the RPM sensing wire, 3) wrap up tuning the ECU. If all goes well, this should take a few hours. If not, well... might be a few more weekends. It's only been in-process for about five years now.

So... SAS it is! I need to start buying stuff next month.



Another issue that I will need to address soon is alternator output. Now that I have the equivalent of the noontime sun mounted on my truck, I'm running pretty thin on spare watts when I turn all the lights on. This alternator caught my eye. Hmm...

 

[DaveInDenver]

Why spend that kind of money, just retrofit a GM from any number of OldsmoCadiBuicks from the 1980s. Throw down your Ben Franklin at Autozone and get you a one-wire Delco-Remy type alternator.

The TG (as much as I hate to admit it) is currently the best option.
https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/GM_Alternator_Bracket/i_0_0_5031/_120120-1-KIT.aspx

This is designed for a GM 12si but can be made to work with a CS130 (ask for the alternator for a 1988 Chevy Caprice Classic).

Remy 91310 (105 amp CS130) for $126:
http://www.amazon.com/Remy-91310-100-New-Alternator/dp/B001DAJ8HC

Then if you want to spend the cash you can get rewound 12si or CS130 that'll do 170A (BTW, realize that these super high output ratings are usually at ridiculous RPMs) and you'd still be looking at $100 less.

 

[DouglasVB]

Why spend that kind of money, just retrofit a GM from any number of OldsmoCadiBuicks from the 1980s. Throw down your Ben Franklin at Autozone and get you a one-wire Delco-Remy type alternator.

The TG (as much as I hate to admit it) is currently the best option.
https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/GM_Alternator_Bracket/i_0_0_5031/_120120-1-KIT.aspx

This is designed for a GM 12si but can be made to work with a CS130 (ask for the alternator for a 1988 Chevy Caprice Classic).

Remy 91310 (105 amp CS130) for $126:
http://www.amazon.com/Remy-91310-100-New-Alternator/dp/B001DAJ8HC

Then if you want to spend the cash you can get rewound 12si or CS130 that'll do 170A (BTW, realize that these super high output ratings are usually at ridiculous RPMs) and you'd still be looking at $100 less.

Good point! I looked at that mod several months ago but forgot about it. I'll check it out again. I have factory AC in the truck and don't want to remove it (it actually works well!). Any trouble with this mod with the AC in mind?

 

[Squishy!]

http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229418