22RE Newbie

[AdamKFarmer]

Hey everyone, I'm back in Denver! I recently moved back here from Romania (by way of OKC) and bought a '94 Pickup to help with some renovations around the house. I still have the '82 FJ40 but gave my father the 2010 4Runner when I left, I assumed I would be in Europe for the next 5-6 years. I didn't have the heart to take it back, so I needed something more practical for a DD. So, I bought the truck and noticed that the coolant is oily, this is my plan so far, let me know what you think.

1) I have done a preliminary compression test and while cylinders 1/4 look okay, 2/3 are 20 psi lower. I will retest today.
2) I ordered a full gasket overhaul kit from Stevinson to replace the HG which I think might be the culprit of the oily coolant and comp test
3) Timing cover/chain was recently done but is leaking so I will correct this issue.

oh yeah, cleaned out the blower as well, no wonder it shook the entire truck when it was on high.

I'm new to the 22RE, anyone have any insight or recommendations? Looking forward to meeting again.

Adam Farmer

 

[DanTheMan]

Welcome back Adam!!! I don't have any info for you on the 22RE but I'm glad your back!

 

[DaveInDenver]

You had me at oily coolant with head gasket before you ever said you bought the kit.

The other possible spot for that is the timing chain cover if someone let the tensioner go long and the timing chain wore railroad tracks into it. That's the famous 22R start-up rattle.

You can sort of see down in there with the valve cover off.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

You had me at oily coolant with head gasket before you ever said you bought the kit.

The other possible spot for that is the timing chain cover if someone let the tensioner go long and the timing chain wore railroad tracks into it. That's the famous 22R start-up rattle.

You can sort of see down in there with the valve cover off.

David-
Sounds like we're on the same page. This was my thought as well, I've heard this can be an issue, but since the chain was replaced prior to my purchase I'm not sure the state of the cover, will find out when I replace the gaskets to fix the leak.

 

[DaveInDenver]

With the compression variance I'm 99% sure it's a HG and you will certainly be able to inspect with the head off. You can pretty easily look withe valve cover off, which is only difficult because you have to move all the emissions junk on top to get it off.

But it wouldn't be a bad idea to check valve lash before saying for sure the compression is bad, a valve not fully closing could throw off compression measurements, too. Your 1/4 and 2/3 combination is sort of inconclusive because, sure, a HG would fail between cylinders but also 1/4 and 2/3 share the same cycle so if exhaust valve clearances are too tight then you'd expect 2/3 to be lower at the same time. That's a long shot but you never know. Maybe the last wrench didn't turn the engine over exactly to TDC and adjusted both #2 and #3 to the same clearance with the cam off a degree.

Not to mention a stretched chain would cause havoc. The engine in my '91 went south because some knucklehead strayed from Toyota parts, which failed. BTW that knucklehead was me. Anyway, the timing parts were only 25k old when the chain guide broke, let the chain flop around and break. So I'm all about following things down.

 

[SteveH]

I had a 22RE with very poor compression in one cylinder (upon purchase) and there was zero valve lash - a valve adjustment fixed the compression issue. Obviously, I caught this one in time.

If you pull the valve cover (easy), you can peer down the driver's side of the timing chain cavity and look for timing cover wear. Just because you see some wear (scratches in the cover) doesn't mean that the cover is shot, it just mostly means that 99% of owners wait until they hear the rattle before they address the timing chain issues. If you see massive cover wear, and you're doing a head gasket anyway, you might want to install a new cover.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

With the compression variance I'm 99% sure it's a HG and you will certainly be able to inspect with the head off. You can pretty easily look withe valve cover off, which is only difficult because you have to move all the emissions junk on top to get it off.

But it wouldn't be a bad idea to check valve lash before saying for sure the compression is bad, a valve not fully closing could throw off compression measurements, too. Your 1/4 and 2/3 combination is sort of inconclusive because, sure, a HG would fail between cylinders but also 1/4 and 2/3 share the same cycle so if exhaust valve clearances are too tight then you'd expect 2/3 to be lower at the same time. That's a long shot but you never know. Maybe the last wrench didn't turn the engine over exactly to TDC and adjusted both #2 and #3 to the same clearance with the cam off a degree.

Not to mention a stretched chain would cause havoc. The engine in my '91 went south because some knucklehead strayed from Toyota parts, which failed. BTW that knucklehead was me. Anyway, the timing parts were only 25k old when the chain guide broke, let the chain flop around and break. So I'm all about following things down.

David-
This is great advice! I was going to check the valves upon reinstallation but this reinforces that. Hoping the chain wasn't too bad prior to their replacing, the truck was decently maintained so I'm hoping that took care of it.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

I had a 22RE with very poor compression in one cylinder (upon purchase) and there was zero valve lash - a valve adjustment fixed the compression issue. Obviously, I caught this one in time.

If you pull the valve cover (easy), you can peer down the driver's side of the timing chain cavity and look for timing cover wear. Just because you see some wear (scratches in the cover) doesn't mean that the cover is shot, it just mostly means that 99% of owners wait until they hear the rattle before they address the timing chain issues. If you see massive cover wear, and you're doing a head gasket anyway, you might want to install a new cover.

Steve-
Good point, I'm going to check it out, but since it's leaky i'm planning on replacing the gaskets and seal as well, with the cover off I'll post pictures.

 

[Rzeppa]

My daughter had a 22RE in her 1985 4Runner so I have a little experience there. Fellow Rising Sun member and owner/operator of CTS Joe Calleja in Conifer told me that in his experience, the timing chain tensioner is normally the culprit in 22RE timing chain issues, and that while he will use an aftermarket timing chain kit, he always uses OEM tensioners to prevent comebacks. Certainly ditto on what was said upthread about the valve lash, you want to make sure those are adjusted properly. I don't know if a degree off of TDC would make much difference (it doesn't in F series motors). Oily coolant would certainly make the HG suspect. The usual method to separate low compression cause from worn rings versus valve sealing issues is to squirt some oil down the spark plug hole of the low compression cylinder (plural in your case) and repeat the compression test. If the compression comes up, it's rings, if it doesn't it is valves.

Welcome back Adam! I think the last time we saw each other was at the Rally before you moved.

 

[nakman]

Hey right on, welcome back Adam! oily coolant also extends the life of your radiator hoses... sorry that's all I got. Looking forward to catching up!

 

[AdamKFarmer]

My daughter had a 22RE in her 1985 4Runner so I have a little experience there. Fellow Rising Sun member and owner/operator of CTS Joe Calleja in Conifer told me that in his experience, the timing chain tensioner is normally the culprit in 22RE timing chain issues, and that while he will use an aftermarket timing chain kit, he always uses OEM tensioners to prevent comebacks. Certainly ditto on what was said upthread about the valve lash, you want to make sure those are adjusted properly. I don't know if a degree off of TDC would make much difference (it doesn't in F series motors). Oily coolant would certainly make the HG suspect. The usual method to separate low compression cause from worn rings versus valve sealing issues is to squirt some oil down the spark plug hole of the low compression cylinder (plural in your case) and repeat the compression test. If the compression comes up, it's rings, if it doesn't it is valves.

Welcome back Adam! I think the last time we saw each other was at the Rally before you moved.

Jeff- That's a great suggestion, I'm not sure what the PO used when they replaced it. I did redo the test last night after making sure the truck was much more warm, (and used a friend to crank the engine) the numbers look normal actually! Yes, the Rally was right before I left!

Cyl 1 - 149 Cyl 2 - 144 Cyl 3 - 145 Cyl 4 - 151

So to me this means maybe the timing cover is the culprit after all, I'll have to see what condition it is in when I take off the valve cover.

Hey right on, welcome back Adam! oily coolant also extends the life of your radiator hoses... sorry that's all I got. Looking forward to catching up!

Tim-
Always a silver lining! My dad loves the truck and gets compliments on the roof rack all the time. During this snow storm he was the only one who could make it to work, Mississippi drivers and snow!

AF

 

[AdamKFarmer]

Oh, I also replaced the bushings on the shifter handle last night, it was really wobbly, in the process I lost the spring to the O/D selector so now I'm bummed that it doesn't work anymore. Any one have that experience?

 

[rover67]

welcome back!!!!!

 

[AdamKFarmer]

Updates! So, @Rzeppa was correct, looking at the inside of timing cover there is a ton of wear and I can see holes worn through. Also, I'm leaning towards @DaveInDenver being correct as well, when taking out the head bolts, two of them were so coated in carbon and junk I almost couldn't remove them! I was hoping to have the head removed but I'm having a hard time disassembling the intake from the head as the wiring harness snakes through the middle of it, making it impossible to remove in it's entirety as suggested by the repair manual. Anyone have any suggestions before I dig into the Youtube?

 

[AdamKFarmer]

Okay, an we're back. I had to completely disconnect the wiring harness and fish it through the intake. I still haven't been able to separate the intake from head yet. The HG looks okay to me, has anyone had any experience with head bolts coming out very carbonized? I pulled two out (the ones near 2/3) and they were so gunked up I almost couldn't remove them. Does anyone have a good diagram where everything hooks up to? I am dreading putting it all back together. Also, the front suspension upper part looks pretty rusty. Is this something I should address soon?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I just looked through my photos when I disassembled my old engine. Doesn't look like I took any of the bolts.

But I wasn't concerned with anything other than the order of loosening since I was only trying to prevent warping the head in case I ended up reusing it someday. I built the new engine with an Engnbldr RV head and used all new factory head bolts, so I never did do anything with that stuff.

My memory (and it's only a memory that's really old now) is that they were not exactly pristine coming out.

I also pulled the whole engine so my wiring harness was laid out on the fenders. I wrote down notes, sketched diagrams and took photos...

 

[AdamKFarmer]

I just looked through my photos when I disassembled my old engine. Doesn't look like I took any of the bolts.

But I wasn't concerned with anything other than the order of loosening since I was only trying to prevent warping the head in case I ended up reusing it someday. I built the new engine with an Engnbldr RV head and used all new factory head bolts, so I never did do anything with that stuff.

My memory (and it's only a memory that's really old now) is that they were not exactly pristine coming out.

Dave- is replacing the head bolts standard practice? Should I do that as well? I'm sure they'll clean up well with some wire wheeling.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Dave- is replacing the head bolts standard practice? Should I do that as well? I'm sure they'll clean up well with some wire wheeling.

I've never found anything that told me definitively the 22R head bolts are or are not torque to yield. IIRC Toyota doesn't say *not* to reuse them on the 22R anyway like they do with the 3VZ (which everyone agrees are torque to yield). Also I think the book says to apply a bit of oil to the threads and that would also indicate they are not TTY.

However, the ones my engine had necked down, which to me implied they might be torque to yield and if that's the case then they should not be reused. I took the position that since I was spending a ton of money a set of new OEM bolts was worth it because even if they weren't TTY the neck meant they probably stretch a little.

This is kind of a situation where you're probably right (or wrong I suppose) either way. If I could go back I'd probably have bought ARP studs and put the question to rest. Those are absolute not TTY.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

I've never found anything that told me definitively the 22R head bolts are or are not torque to yield. IIRC Toyota doesn't say *not* to reuse them on the 22R anyway like they do with the 3VZ (which everyone agrees are torque to yield).

But the ones my engine had necked down, which to me implied they are torque to yield and if that's the case then they should not be reused. I took the position that since I was spending a ton of money a set of new OEM bolts was worth it because even if they weren't TTY the neck meant they probably stretch a little.

This is kind of a situation where you're probably right (or wrong I suppose) either way. If I could go back I'd probably have bought ARP studs and put the question to rest. Those are absolute not TTY.

Dave- thanks for the input, I did some light googling and saw they weren't TTY, so I'll just cross my fingers. Any thoughts on that upper suspension rust?

 

[rover67]

The last 22re that I did (25 years ago?) had really gunked up head bolts, on the exhaust side they barely came out I remember. I cleaned and reused and it was at a time that I probably didn't even measure. probably should have