Switching from CB to FRS

[Rzeppa]

I still don't understand why the switch from CB to FRS. I can hear my CBs. My FRS teeny tiny speaker is too small to hear anything.

 

[damon]

I still don't understand why the switch from CB to FRS. I can hear my CBs. My FRS teeny tiny speaker is too small to hear anything.

From my own experience, CB is usually nothing but noise and skip. Going to FRS allows participants to not have to spend money on purchasing, installation, and tuning of a CB unit in their truck. They can grab a cheap FRS radio and go. If you are having issues hearing your radio, it might have a speaker output on it, and non-powered speakers are cheap and very effective. I can hear my GMRS radio from the driver's seat with an external speaker when the volume is at 2 out of 7.

 

[Hulk]

I'm moving a couple of posts to this thread so as not to pollute a thread from a Cruise Moab newcomer who has questions about making sure he has the right equipment. We can use this thread for discussion about choice of radio.

 

[Hulk]

I still don't understand why the switch from CB to FRS. I can hear my CBs.

There is a probably a long thread on the forum where we detailed out the reason the CM committee decided to make the switch. But I am too lazy to go find it, so here are a few quick bullets why FRS is a better choice for Cruise Moab.

• CB radio is a declining technology among off-roaders. Most people have no interest in having a CB radio when they will never use it again for their local 4x4 club or other trail run events.
• We have 68 first-timers coming to Cruise Moab this year. It seems stupid to require these people to buy and install CB radio setups when they will not use CB radio with their local clubs on their local trails.
• FRS radios are easy to get and (most of them) work well right out of the box. The Midland models are inexpensive and bulletproof.
• An inexpensive handheld FRS radio works way better than an inexpensive handheld CB radio. The people who say "CB radio works just fine" are the people who had invested in good mobile CB radios with quality antennas, all intelligently installed (and grounded) in their vehicles. That included me — my CB radio setup was top notch.
• How many CM trail runs have you been on where someone's CB radio just wasn't working for some mysterious reason? For me, that's every single CM trail run I've ever been on. With FRS radios, that's an easy fix: just hand the driver one of your extra FRS radios. Many of us in the club already have 4 or more FRS radios in our truck at all time. That means every driver can hear directions from the trail leader even if/when their own radio is broke.

My FRS teeny tiny speaker is too small to hear anything.

• This seems like something you of all people could fix, Mr. Electrical Engineer.

 

[damon]

• How many CM trail runs have you been on where someone's CB radio just wasn't working for some mysterious reason? For me, that's every single CM trail run I've ever been on. With FRS radios, that's an easy fix: just hand the driver one of your extra FRS radios. Many of us in the club already have 4 or more FRS radios in our truck at all time. That means every driver can hear directions from the trail leader even if/when their own radio is broke.

I have an installed 15W GMRS/FRS radio, and at least 2 fully charged mobiles with me at the same time.

I haven't done a distance check offroad, but in town I can hit the Metro 600 repeater in Northglenn from my house in Green Mountain VERY clearly. I have confirmed that repeater can easily hit Aurora as well.

With my CB, I was lucky to make it out of neighborhood.

 

[RayRay27]

I really liked the Cobra setup I had in my rig and it worked fine but I feel like there are way better communication devices now then traditional CB. Now that you can GMRS/FRS radios in higher wattages with larger forward facing speakers is great. Some FRS/GMRS radios can be cost prohibited depending on setup and model but I think the benefits outweigh the costs. Personally I still feel that HAM is the way to go. I have the simplest and cheapest setup in my rig and it will smoke any CB set up. I have a Yaesu FTM-3100R single band which has a power range of 5w to 65w hooked up to a magnetic based Diamond MR77SMA. I can get up to 9 miles on this setup with simplex at 65w. The best I ever did with CB was maybe a mile. The test to get your HAM license is fairly simple too. Any way I digress.

The only reason I got a CB radio was because it was a Cruise Moab requirement. I know the couple times I was a volunteer vehicle inspector during Cruise Moab, about a quarter of the drivers that were checking in had barely functioning radios while doing radio checks. Either the antenna wasn't tuned correctly, the radio didn't have a dedicated power source or just didn't plain work at all. I would tell them that they had to have it functioning prior to running trails because it was a requirement of the event, so they would have to go into town to the one CB shop and try and get it fixed. I think that this is financial burden on our participants because some folks may only use that CB during CM and that's it. The same can be said about FRS/GMRS too but with those devices you don't have to have a dedicated antenna or power source to keep them going unlike most CB's.

With FRS/GMRS anyone can go to any major sporting outlet or large department store and buy a cheap set.

 

[Inukshuk]

CBs are like Pearl Jam (@Hulk), but still better than jelly (@jps8460).

 

[jps8460]

Nicely tuned CB > FRS but I’d rather be smackin a HAM…… radio

 

[Romer]

Jeff, I feel you. When I bring up something with Rachel and Sarah relative to kids, house etc, I get told "That is so last century "

You likely have a finely tuned CB and antenna. Most people don't. I couldn't talk to the end of the trail I was leading using a CB and was thankful when many of us got HAMs

My handheld FRS/GRMS tends to do fine only rarely when blocked by terrain have I had an issue with the back of a trail. Since I installed my higher power FRS/GRMS Mobile unit performance is even better.

Like others have said, HAM is still the best option

 

[nakman]

Obviously not practical or even appropriate to attempt to require Ham radio at Cruise Moab. For those who know, it's also the best coms device but kinda not the point. I too was really tired of all the crappy CB's on the trail also perry however @Rzeppa yours was always among the best, ftr. Maybe second place, after Cheeseman. I usually had a pretty good CB, but willing to invest a little more as I expected to use it more than once per year. But after the first Cruise Moab with FRS, it seems like all our local club runs are on FRS now also. So it's just easier now.

I think the point about how easy it is to just toss someone a radio is the biggest seller- pretty decent coms are almost a non-issue now, and so long as the run doesn't get too spread out the little FRS buggers actually work pretty well. I still have stories of the FRS radios not transmitting well across great distances, valleys, etc. but nothing like the stories I have about crappy CB's. Perry.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Indeed, handheld FRS radios are a major benefit. It wasn't that long ago that a handheld CB was a pretty rare thing and we did a lot of yelling and hand waving to figure out what the hell was going on and which spotter to watch. I think that was as much a reason ham radios originally caught as anything else.

My $0.02 is GMRS/FRS is about the right combination of things for general 4x4 use and why it didn't take much effort to get the whole community to buy in. CBs have always been kind of pain and ham radio was overall just too complex for non hobbyists.

 

[Rzeppa]

Let's see...

• Sliders, check
• Bumpers, check
• Lockers, check
• Winch, check
• Storage drawers, check
• Awning, check
• RTT, check
• Lift, check
• Gears, check
• Light bar, check
• CB, nooooooooooooo! WAY too expensive and hassle to install!

 

[Romer]

Oh Jeff,

cost to install has nothing to do with it. It lacks in comparison to performance

The image is courtesy of my 3 year old Granddaughter. It is her favorite song

 

[damon]

OK Jeff, we get it. You like CB, and Werther's Originals. Can you stop beating the dead horse?

 

[mcgaskins]

Let's see...

• Sliders, check
• Bumpers, check
• Lockers, check
• Winch, check
• Storage drawers, check
• Awning, check
• RTT, check
• Lift, check
• Gears, check
• Light bar, check
• CB, nooooooooooooo! WAY too expensive and hassle to install!

I'll take the blame on this one. When I was on the Cruise Moab Committee in 2018/2019 for the 2019 event, I shared several ideas that were more controversial than I had anticipated.

One of the first ideas I raised was no longer renting satellite phones and instead buying Garmin Inreach devices the club would own indefinitely. I put together a pro forma to show the payback period and did a quick presentation about how in theory whoever is running command at the Cruise Moab HQ could watch in real time everyone's progress on the trail. That was the least controversial and we enacted the plan that year.

Another idea was that we should offer the first ever women's only trail run to create opportunities for people who felt the off road space wasn't really for them or for those who are usually in the passenger seat. This led to some lengthy discussion, and the biggest concern I heard is "who would lead it and how do we know people will sign up?". The good news my wife had already volunteered to lead it (ok maybe I took some liberties here but she was indeed willing to go for it), and Emma Hamilton offered to gun. We put the event on the schedule, and the first ever women's only run was a huge success.

I wasn't prepared for the intense debate when I raised the idea of switching from CB to FRS/GMRS however...I've long been frustrated by poor trail comms - people either not having a good, tuned radio, not knowing how to use their radio, or simply having nothing at all. With simplicity, functionality and compatibility in mind, modern FRS/GMRS radios beat CB in every way particularly for those who show up with no radio. I have at least 6 FRS handhelds fully charged in my Cruiser ready to hand out to anyone who needs one and within seconds we have excellent comms with no learning curve. That simply isn't possible with a CB and isn't legal with a ham.

After I made my case for the switch, someone replied angrily pointing at me and said "That's the problem with YOU MILLENNIALS!! YOU just want the newest, fanciest gadgets and don't RESPECT the way things have always been done!". Someone else chimed in and said they had invested a lot of money into their CB setup and it would be rendered pointless if we made the switch because the only time he used it was at Cruise Moab. That right there is the key - asking 200+ people to have an outmoded, relatively expensive and complex set of equipment that needs to be tuned and dialed to work properly so that a handful of people don't have to change doesn't make a lot of sense when you can instead ask people to spend as little as $20-30 on a handheld that works right out of the box and doesn't have to be installed or tuned. The other key is that the vast majority of people only used their CB at Cruise Moab, whereas the standard in the off road community is FRS and GMRS and can be used year round at every event. I realized that back in late 2018 when I made the suggestion, FRS wasn't yet the standard it is today, but the writing was on the wall and I wanted Rising Sun to be an innovator and leader by switching for the 2019 event. We did not enact it that year, but the switch had been made at the 2021 event with 2020 being cancelled of course.

The bottom line is planning for large scale events needs to consider how the majority will be impacted. Change often leads to a handful of people feeling unhappy, but if you want to have a successful, professional event, you need to adapt with the times and make things easier and more accessible to attendees. I'm incredibly proud to be part of Rising Sun and Cruise Moab, and I hope the club continues to be innovative and continues to improve what is already a world class event.

First ever women's only run with a nice taco lunch break on a skottle!

 

[Inukshuk]

"Or a C.B. radio. I can talk to other car beds. That'll be hot."

Or a C.B. radio. I can talk to other car beds. That'll be hot.

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[Inukshuk]

Go Fund Me: buy Jeff Zepp a MXT 275 with External speaker: LINK HERE

 

[Johnny Utah]

I have a CB, I have had it tuned. It works great. But for our purposes, and for events like Cruise Moab, FRS/GMRS is better in almost every way.

 

[RayRay27]

C.W. McCall - Convoy


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd5ZLJWQmss

 

[Inukshuk]

OG Overlander: Hey there where ya goin', Not exactly knowin' Who says you have to call just one place home?

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/bjandthebearlyrics.html

Rollin' down to Dallas,
My wheels provide my palace
I'm off to New Orleans or who knows where.
Places new and ladies, too,
I'm B.J. McKay and this is my best friend Bear.

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/bjandthebearlyrics.html

View: https://youtu.be/Rcozed_BJWM