Future of RS forum - please read

[Hulk]

I'm posting this thread in a place where all registered users can see it (rather than in the "Members Only" section) because we have a number of long-time forum users who aren't currently RS members.

We're on version 3.8.11 of vBulletin, which is the last version in the 3 series that will ever be released. It works now, but eventually it won't, and we will be forced to upgrade to a new version of the application. The current version of vBulletin is "vBulletin 5.4.4 Connect." I'd like to look into whether we should go ahead and upgrade now.

We never upgraded to the 4 series, and I'm trying to remember why. If I recall correctly, Woody had upgraded ih8mud to vB 4, and there were a number of people who didn't like it. (Now ih8mud is on a completely different platform called Xenforo, but that's not part of this discussion). Was there functionality on vB 3 that was removed in vB 4? Was the old one easier to use?

I don't want to wreck this forum -- we have a good thing going here on our own little corner of the Internet. But it may be there are things with vB 5, like a smart phone app, that would benefit all of us.

Let me know your thoughts. I am especially interested in hearing from people who remember why they didn't like vB 4.

 

[DaveInDenver]

My memory is it just wasn't worth buying an upgrade. Changing to a forum software that renders on small screens would be nice.

 

[Hulk]

Most of you are aware that Woody (ih8mud) moved away from vBulletin to Xenforo. Here's a long story from the owner of avforums.com on why vBulletin is so bad. We may just want to stick with what we have.

 

[74fj40]

Not sure if the cost is a concern, but I really like the ih8mud interface, and it works great on my phone, tablet etc

 

[wesintl]

If we do anything i'd support the move to xenforo. Kier and mike created it after the vb IB debalce. That's why vb 4 and 5 suck and we never upgraded. They were the main developers during the vb heyday

 

[lars]

We some what talked about upgrading when I started to help with the web sight. At that point V 4 sucked so bad that it wasent worth upgrading to.

If it still sucks. The extra work in going to xenforo might be worth it.

 

[kurtnkegger]

Perhaps there’s no getting away from it, but I absolutely hate mud after the “upgrade”. Too much clutter and takes away from the site. I like the fact we can use this forum without logging in and don’t have to wade through the advertising and BS.

Just my opinion

 

[Hulk]

Not sure if the cost is a concern, but I really like the ih8mud interface, and it works great on my phone, tablet etc

How do you access ih8mud on your phone? Through a browser or through an app?

If we do anything i'd support the move to xenforo. Kier and mike created it after the vb IB debalce. That's why vb 4 and 5 suck and we never upgraded. They were the main developers during the vb heyday

I signed up yesterday for a forum called The Admin Zone, which is a forum for people who run forums. Looks to me like xenforo is an excellent option. The Admin Zone actually runs on xenforo and the interface is similar to this one and works great.

We some what talked about upgrading when I started to help with the website. At that point V 4 sucked so bad that it wasn't worth upgrading to.

If it still sucks. The extra work in going to xenforo might be worth it.

Sounds like we're thinking in the same direction.

Perhaps there’s no getting away from it, but I absolutely hate mud after the “upgrade”. Too much clutter and takes away from the site. I like the fact we can use this forum without logging in and don’t have to wade through the advertising and BS.

Just my opinion

I'm pretty sure we can implement xenforo without any advertising and crap.

 

[AimCOTaco]

All for upgrades!

While I don't know all the technical background for where we are now from a users perspective our forum feels dated to me and I think there is some key functionality that needs to be added one way or another.

I'd counter Kurt's opinion above and say that I really prefer the current 'mud forum functionality to our own.

Pictures; I think one of the biggest places were hurting is ease of posting photos vs other platforms. To be able to upload full size images and have them display correctly on all platforms would be huge. As it is I plan to post pictures more often than I actually do because of the steps required, currently I feel the need to re-size pics before upload and they will still display all different sizes on the site and look bad on mobile.
The ability to simply upload full format pics and have the site scale them appropriately for each users display while giving users linked access to the full image is critical to continued forum utilization IMO.

Drafts; on mud if you draft up a post but don't complete and post it it will still exist when you return, even from another device. Many times I've started drafting a post here but then get pulled away and loose the draft, often I'll just move on and not post at all when that happens. Not a huge deal and I should probably make my posts a lot shorter anyway but it has reduced my post count a few times.

Mobile; Most internet users are not primarily on the desktop anymore so a site that works well on all devices is necessary.

Overall I'd really like to see this forum continue to be the go to for club communications and trip reports but it's becoming common to see more RS related content (especially pictures) on other platforms and I think much of that comes down to ease of use and feature set. I think all forums have been affected by the explosion of social media in general but I also see forums that have kept up with modern web technologies have retained the most users and continued to grow (ADV, 'Mud, etc).

Why is discussing Xenfro not an option? Cost? Overhead? Other?

Thanks a lot perusing this guys!

 

[DaveInDenver]

I agree with all of Andy's points and will make one point about growth. The RS forum isn't necessarily about growing a web audience but keeping each other in touch, so perhaps the goals aren't exactly the same as Mud or the other comparable examples. IOW, cost vs clicks has a different goal. If the current platform suffices for the club goals spending zero is better than anything.

However, I'm going through something I think might be apt. Since moving away from Denver I've not had a lot of good experience getting in touch with local clubs. Horsetooth I had some contact but there's a fair amount of double membership and cross-over. But Bookcliffs Cruisers has so far been next to impossible to get figured out a run or meeting schedule. There's almost zero social or web presence as far as I can see. I am at least kind of informed through Jonathan and Ace and the TLCA, but if I was truly new and didn't know anything, a new 4Runner owner or whatever, I doubt they'd even know to look for them much less have any luck cracking the code to finding a meeting place or run to do.

As a result the bit I can piece together is they are really struggling. I get bits from Expedition Portal and through Mud. But in the 3 months since moving to GJ I know more about runs here that the Rising Sun does than Bookcliff. I get more about what's going on through the Grand Mesa Jeep Club than Bookcliffs just because they have someone who at least posts and responds on their Facebook page. If I didn't know better I'd think the network in the Bookcliffs doesn't want anyone new coming in.

So I might suggest that having a fairly modern interface is important. Take a moment and look at the number of people who "@" a user name thinking it will tag them. That's become kind of a standard way to interact on the web and it has no function here.

 

[mcgaskins]

Pictures; I think one of the biggest places were hurting is ease of posting photos vs other platforms. To be able to upload full size images and have them display correctly on all platforms would be huge. As it is I plan to post pictures more often than I actually do because of the steps required, currently I feel the need to re-size pics before upload and they will still display all different sizes on the site and look bad on mobile.
The ability to simply upload full format pics and have the site scale them appropriately for each users display while giving users linked access to the full image is critical to continued forum utilization IMO.

I've noticed the issues with posting pics on this forum as well, and this is the only forum I've participated in that essentially requires me to host on a third party site and use IMG tags to get them to render properly. Every picture I've uploaded here renders upside down or sideways regardless of how the native file appears, and I notice that a lot with other users as well. I don't mind hosting on a third party site (use Google photos), but the fiasco with Photobucket earlier this year has me fearful something similar will happen with my pics and all my IMG tagged photos will disappear one day. I generally find this forum to be fine and uncluttered, but pics and videos could be much easier to post.

So I might suggest that having a fairly modern interface is important. Take a moment and look at the number of people who "@" a user name thinking it will tag them. That's become kind of a standard way to interact on the web and it has no function here.

Something I just thought of to add to the "@user" comment above is the ability to multi quote posts more seamlessly and the ability to "like" posts. Often someone will post something great that stands on its own and doesn't need to be commented on, but it would be nice to throw them a like, especially on picture posts. Love it or hate it, that's the way we interact online when you look at virtually every other platform on social media (FB, instagram, forums, etc.) and even work sites like Slack.

 

[gungriffin]

I would express my opinion as neutral. No one likes to learn a new system, but sometimes it is necessary. With time, changes oftentimes become like normal.

 

[subzali]

I felt like the migration of forum software on MUD was pretty seamless. I agree with Kurt if you're not logged in the ads will drive you batty, but I see none when I'm logged in. Browsing on web browser on phone or tablet is perfectly fine on MUD.

To mobile browse here I have to use Tapatalk; which I hate. No control, constant changes to the interface, constantly logging me out, plus they constantly want me to create a Tapatalk account, which is annoying.

 

[ccslider]

I think this forum works fine except the pictures and sometimes I get a weird website when I click on the forum link from the main page.

I access both this forum and mud through adblock browser.

 

[simps80]

I felt like the migration of forum software on MUD was pretty seamless. I agree with Kurt if you're not logged in the ads will drive you batty, but I see none when I'm logged in. Browsing on web browser on phone or tablet is perfectly fine on MUD.

To mobile browse here I have to use Tapatalk; which I hate. No control, constant changes to the interface, constantly logging me out, plus they constantly want me to create a Tapatalk account, which is annoying.

the ad component of mud would be a shiw stopper.
The only way to prevent the malicious redirects and other stuff is to have a paid silver star and stay logged in....which I do, and that seems to stop it from misbehaving...

if that is something that isnt directly tied to the platform musd is on I think it would be great here. I like the additional functionality of it...especially the auto picture rendering/sizing.

but if the over the top ad stuff comes with it, I think this platform is just fine

 

[White Stripe]

My problem with mud is the spam ads. You'll be reading a thread and all of a sudden a you have won money thing shows up and u have to close the window and reopen and tell Woody what happened so he can block the scam pop up. Probably happens once a month for me.

 

[wesintl]

Pictures; I think one of the biggest places were hurting is ease of posting photos vs other platforms. To be able to upload full size images and have them display correctly on all platforms would be huge. As it is I plan to post pictures more often than I actually do because of the steps required, currently I feel the need to re-size pics before upload and they will still display all different sizes on the site and look bad on mobile.
The ability to simply upload full format pics and have the site scale them appropriately for each users display while giving users linked access to the full image is critical to continued forum utilization IMO.

TOTALLY agree. for that alone we should switch to zenforo

appreciate everyones input as well.

 

[Rzeppa]

I'm posting this thread in a place where all registered users can see it (rather than in the "Members Only" section) because we have a number of long-time forum users who aren't currently RS members.

We're on version 3.8.11 of vBulletin, which is the last version in the 3 series that will ever be released. It works now, but eventually it won't, and we will be forced to upgrade to a new version of the application. The current version of vBulletin is "vBulletin 5.4.4 Connect." I'd like to look into whether we should go ahead and upgrade now.

We never upgraded to the 4 series, and I'm trying to remember why. If I recall correctly, Woody had upgraded ih8mud to vB 4, and there were a number of people who didn't like it. (Now ih8mud is on a completely different platform called Xenforo, but that's not part of this discussion). Was there functionality on vB 3 that was removed in vB 4? Was the old one easier to use?

I don't want to wreck this forum -- we have a good thing going here on our own little corner of the Internet. But it may be there are things with vB 5, like a smart phone app, that would benefit all of us.

Let me know your thoughts. I am especially interested in hearing from people who remember why they didn't like vB 4.

Can we have a weigh-in from the Rising Sun Webmaster?

 

[Rzeppa]

Most of you are aware that Woody (ih8mud) moved away from vBulletin to Xenforo. Here's a long story from the owner of avforums.com on why vBulletin is so bad. We may just want to stick with what we have.

Ever since Woody migrated, I have really avoided Mud. His new software really sucks, is slow and full of obnoxious ads. I hate it and really avoid that site since then.

 

[Rzeppa]

I felt like the migration of forum software on MUD was pretty seamless.

In my PERSONAL experience, the migration on Mud was extremely buggy, and wouldn't want our own club to go through anything like that.