What does...

[ScaldedDog]

You guys with 22REs and such have to remember that with an F or 2F (or better yet, a 3B or 1HZ) you get 90% of full torque at 1000 RPM, and can lug that big ol' straight six down to less than 500 RPM and still get up the trail.

At 200:1 and 3.0 in my 4500lb-5000lb 4Runner, I could idle up that steep incline at the end of the loop on Fins. 300rpm and it took the better part of minute to climb the thing, but it did it consistently. That was with 35" radials, though, I don't think I could do it with 37" bias ply's. Lot's of rolling resistance at 5psi, in addition to the increased diameter.

Idling through the Crack with no feet on the pedals is kind of fun, too.

Mark

 

[Rzeppa]

300rpm and...

Just curious...what engine will run at 300RPM?

 

[ScaldedDog]

Just curious...what engine will run at 300RPM?

3.0 V6. Downey headers and a Jacobs ignition are the only real modifications.

Mark

 

[AxleIke]

You guys with 22REs and such have to remember that with an F or 2F (or better yet, a 3B or 1HZ) you get 90% of full torque at 1000 RPM, and can lug that big ol' straight six down to less than 500 RPM and still get up the trail.

Al Ostoff (who has a V8J40) rode with me up the Rock Garden of Spring Creek one year and had forgotten how slow these motors can go. It sounds like it's going to stall, then a bit of skinny pedal and it just grunts right through. Neil Quigley had to drive his 40 at Moab last year because of issues with his runner, and he told me how he had almost forgotten how much different driving a 40 is from a runner, as far as technique. They are like tanks, and the extra low grunt of the stock motor reduces the need for lower gears.

No question, lower gears have their place, but with the stock motor you can do a lot you would have more trouble with a motor that didn't have as much low end. Everything's a trade-off though and there are pros and con's to everything from stock to modified and one model type to the next. And as my friend Wayne Smith says, which I tend to agree with, "the farther you get from stock, the more you sacrifice that Toyota Reliability".

Ahhh, that is a good point. Especially about Toyota reliability.

I didn't realize the LC motors were that good.

My 22RE hits the power band at 3k. As far as torque goes, I needed 1500 in stock low range just to make it go. With the lower tcase, it does pretty well at 1000.

 

[Red_Chili]

And as my friend Wayne Smith says, which I tend to agree with, "the farther you get from stock, the more you sacrifice that Toyota Reliability".

Ahhh, that is a good point. Especially about Toyota reliability.

I didn't realize the LC motors were that good.

My 22RE hits the power band at 3k. As far as torque goes, I needed 1500 in stock low range just to make it go. With the lower tcase, it does pretty well at 1000.

Somewhat true about Toyota reliability for stock, but I have found that with drivetrain that ain't necessarily so. My FF rear for instance. Or combining Toyota parts that were never connected to each other from the factory, but work fantastically. Not a hard and fast rule, there are many 'opportunities' even in Toyotas.

A man made it, and a man or woman can fix it better. It's all synthetic.

I am running about 230:1+ with the R151, and use it. And I drive to trails, and daily driver (except for fear of theft or vandalism). It ain't too low. I use the heck out of first and second with the 4.7 rear case, sometimes first and second with the stock front case is good (only 6" longer drivetrain BTW), and when I want total control and things happening nice and slow, no bounce, no sudden slide, nuttin' beats Marlin Ultimate low. I have gear combos that don't duplicate, and am good for snow bashin' to rock creepin', to towing a camper across Wyoming. It's all good.

Slap a ToyBox in there. You could even keep taller diffs and never feel constrained.

 

[leiniesred]

I'm at about 244:1 in double low, 1st gear.
4.30st gear, x 4.7 x 2.28 X 5.29 = 243.7
My 3.0V6 (3vze) will also idle at 300 RPM. Just kinda wheezes along.

It is funny when you climb a rock, and the RPMs drop under 300, the dash floods with warning lights, but then the tire goes back down the other side and the revs come back up. Technically, I don't think the engine is "running" for a couple of seconds, but it is still turning over!

100:1 Makes the trails a lot easier. You can drive more smoothly. You can climb and descend rocks that you used to bounce over at 50:1.

As noted above, 100:1 means you are about 1/2 as fast as the majority of a group trail-ride. You wind up in 3rd or 4th gear on the trail, but you drop down to 1st and enjoy the lower gears at the rough spots like rock gardens, ledges and big climbs.

I find that wheeling with the club I'm in about 50:1 most of the time with 36 inch tires.

Above 200:1 is silly slow and can actually be a bad thing. Your wheels are all but stopped. No momentum to carry you over an obstacle you can't crawl. On ice, going slowly is one thing, but you might as well lock 'em up at 240:1. No control. Descending something sketchy is also a problem. You can't get enough tire speed to do anything if it starts to endo.

Having the CHOICE to go silly slow is really nice though. I often use the 244:1 ratio on the tough trails. but when the going gets REALLY tough I end up in 2nd or 3rd gear, double down(2.28*4.7), engine at 5K. That is about 100:1. I like to descend big ledges double down in 2nd. Right where you are looking.

I would say in summary that 100:1ish makes the rough parts of trails 2x easier/safer. It is also about perfect for tough obstacles that require tire spinning action.

 

[Red_Chili]

Choice is good like ^^ said. It's like the dark side, once there you never go back.

One downside to be aware of is pushing in your clutch and freewheeling down a hill. More than one clutch has grenaded as its rotation exceeds 10K rpm or so. Rare, but possible. Once you are aware, it prolly ain't gonna happen.

 

[bustanutley]

A low reving F with 100:1 and 40” tires is a good combination. I’m 67.5:1 and it is low enough most the time, but with 40s deeper gears are needed, a 4.3 atlas is in my future which will put me at 125:1, but most my wheeling will still be done at around 60:1. Most the obstacles in moab require a bump so deeper gears don’t really do much for you in that arena, unless you are running BFE.

It would be easier to keep my truck running on this obstacle with lower gears.