what about wood?

[dan1554]

Our propane bill was shocking coming from nat. gas. @ $300/month for baseboard & hot water. But as I understand maybe its not so bad with NG prices at the moment. Anyway I've been burning as much as possible to offset that cost, which only dropped it to $250, but there are zones in the house where the heat doesn't reach.

Thinking the ideal plan is to install solar and switch to an electric on-demand system. Probably won't live long enough to offset the cost of that, but its more gear to obsess over.

Also, I think there are restrictions on wood burning below a certain altitude. Not sure if that was mentioned, but something to consider.

 

[rover67]

i forgot about the altitude thing, I think above 7k you get a hall pass on high polution days, below that altitude you can't burn. We're at about 8k

 

[nuclearlemon]

Also, I think there are restrictions on wood burning below a certain altitude. Not sure if that was mentioned, but something to consider.

another advantage to moving out of calorado

 

[Telly]

I'll say this, I love burning wood. I grew up in a house with a wood burning central furnace system along with a wood burning stove. I installed two wood burning stoves in our current house, one downstairs and one on the main level. Our house is at 7300' elevation. Our boiler went out in February a couple years ago and we heated our entire house with those stoves for two weeks in consistent below freezing temps. Anyway, that's my story.

 

[Corbet]

If I had to start from scratch I'd be looking at a geothermic heat pump. With a wood stove to supplement and solar to power. Retrofitting can get tough of ROI. I wish my roof was better for solar.

 

[Beach Boy]

Since Nic mentioned it. Glad I now spend my winters down in Florida, yes I'm retired. My cost for heat during the winter in Moab (gas) when it is turned down to around 50 degrees is only around $50.00.

 

[nakman]

You can burn in the city, you just have to have an epa rated wood stove. https://cdphe.colorado.gov/indoor-air-quality/approved-indoor-burning-devices

Which means there’s some sort of double combustion going on, once it gets hot you can’t even see smoke really. Kinda like a solo stove? I seem to remember hearing a stat like their emissions are less than a passenger car… but it’s been a while.

Hey @J1000 do you know where to look on the x el site to see if I’m opted in?


But speaking of wood…

 

[dan1554]

I have one that introduces air above primary burn like the solo. Works well once it gets hot, I don't see smoke out of our chimney. Probably better for your pipes too.

 

[Corbet]

Both my stoves are the clean burn type. With the air vent open they burn smokeless looking at the chimney. Once you close down the air for slow burn they both smoke a little. Varies during the burn, type of wood, and how well the stove is packed with wood.

 

[rover67]

Ours is epa rated its a catalyst style stove. there is a bypass to the catalyst to get it hot then once its up to temp you flip the bypass so the smoke/fumes get routed through the cat. You can't see anything come out of the cimney except some vapor when it's running and its gets icicles hanging off the cap. moving to that style stove from the old fisher mama bear (steel box/1975?) is what cut our wood consumption in half.

I'd like to know if I am opted in to time of use, if there's a way to check

 

[J1000]

You can burn in the city, you just have to have an epa rated wood stove. https://cdphe.colorado.gov/indoor-air-quality/approved-indoor-burning-devices

Which means there’s some sort of double combustion going on, once it gets hot you can’t even see smoke really. Kinda like a solo stove? I seem to remember hearing a stat like their emissions are less than a passenger car… but it’s been a while.

Hey @J1000 do you know where to look on the x el site to see if I’m opted in?


But speaking of wood…

View attachment 112128

I received a letter in the mail advertising "a new way to save money" and also got an email telling me I was going to be opted-in. I didn't notice anything else on my account page about it.

 

[gungriffin]

You can burn in the city, you just have to have an epa rated wood stove. https://cdphe.colorado.gov/indoor-air-quality/approved-indoor-burning-devices

Which means there’s some sort of double combustion going on, once it gets hot you can’t even see smoke really. Kinda like a solo stove? I seem to remember hearing a stat like their emissions are less than a passenger car… but it’s been a while.

Hey @J1000 do you know where to look on the x el site to see if I’m opted in?


But speaking of wood…

View attachment 112128

You know that you are on TOU when you have separate line items peak shoulder and off peak under the electric breakdown on the bill.

A TOU bill breakdown will look like this:

 

[gungriffin]

I got a notice from Xcel that I was being opted in to "Time of Use" automatically. I tried that out a few years ago when I daily drove a Nissan LEAF but it wasn't worth the inconvenience and no matter what I did my bill was higher. They hide it in small print but if you are opted-in you have 30 days to opt-out. If anyone out there also received this letter I strongly urge you to opt-out. The price per kwh from 11am-7pm is drastically higher, and from 1-7pm it's nearly double. If you run your AC at all during the day it's going to cause huge increases on your bill. The outrage will be insane when people start realizing they've been opted in and there's no going back.

You can opt out of TOU at anytime. You will have to pay a "meter read fee" from now on that the smart meter people don't pay. That will be around $15-25 a month. There is also summer and winter pricing for electricity. The high pricing is also only really during the summer. TOU doesn't make sense if you work from home.

The times for TOU are:

• 1-3pm "shoulder" pricing
• 3-7pm is peak
• 7pm-1pm the next day is off peak

 

[gungriffin]

A few thoughts on saving on the bill, but not really on the stove. I can delete them if they are sidetracking your preferred conversation.

+Tim, have you thought about adding to your solar instead? I think we should start a thread on self installing solar. There is actually some interesting items I have found that having west facing solar is superior if you are on TOU electric. This is because the solar credits are given for the category you are in when they are produced. So interestingly, even though a west facing array will produce less total Kwhs, it will produce more of the valuable peak pricing credits.

+If you have solar, you really want to be on TOU pricing as it *should* reduce your bill.

+You might find total energy savings of 10-35% by better airsealing your house. I have a FLIR camera you can borrow to make this much easier.

+I will have more data soon, but I am going with an all electric setup in my house I am remodeling. The setup will be an electric only 2 ton heat pump, induction range and a heat pump water heater. When I couple this with a 9900w solar array, I believe that I will not have any energy bills again. The heat pump produces 100% of its btu rating down to 5 degrees and 80% of its btu rating at -13 degrees. I also threw in an 8kw hair dryer style backup for if the temps hold at less than -20 degrees for a sustained period. I am rolling the dice, but I think it will be worth it. Hell, I will save $240 a year just in the nat gas connection fees that I was charged before going all electric. That alone is quite a savings.

+There are some really interesting options for tax credits with the new IRA law that was passed. There are many many categories that you might qualify for.

 

[rover67]

Give yer place a walk with that flir camera. That’s what I did in our place. Just kinda drank beer and walked around with it every cold night. Sealed all the big stuff and it made a decent difference

 

[gungriffin]

Give yer place a walk with that flir camera. That’s what I did in our place. Just kinda drank beer and walked around with it every cold night. Sealed all the big stuff and it made a decent difference

That was exactly why I bought it. Before I opened up the walls in the remodel, I could see every single stud behind the sheetrock on only a cool night. On a cold night, I could damn near see the wiring and the plumbing in the walls! Of course, my house was built in 1961 and it has exactly zero wall insulation. Unless you consider brick and sheet rock insulation...

 

[nakman]

great stuff, Ryan, yeah I'd love to mess with a camera sometime... there are cracks under a couple windows where I can feel the cold air blast in, so I bet there are a ton others as well.

I also like the idea of adding to my solar system myself, seems like now that the fancy stuff is already installed the additional panels should just be plug & play? Particularly since I'm running inverters at the panel... just not sure if I can mix and match the inverter outputs, or if the system would even care really.

 

[gungriffin]

great stuff, Ryan, yeah I'd love to mess with a camera sometime... there are cracks under a couple windows where I can feel the cold air blast in, so I bet there are a ton others as well.

I also like the idea of adding to my solar system myself, seems like now that the fancy stuff is already installed the additional panels should just be plug & play? Particularly since I'm running inverters at the panel... just not sure if I can mix and match the inverter outputs, or if the system would even care really.

It will depend on how many watts each inverter can handle. I would venture to say they used as few inverters as possible. That likely won't leave any room to simply add panels. You should be able to just copy and paste the setup you already have though. F*&^ Denver permitting bigtime, but at least they offer the ability to search permits online. Once you sign up for an account on the link below, you can search for permits for any address in Denver. This will allow you to see what was submitted by the previous company for your setup you have now. I would imagine that you can just simply alter the permit application that was submitted before. It also seems like it should be easier this time because you already have the NEM.

City and County of Denver | ePermit online

www.denvergov.org

 

[subzali]

I called xcel and opted out of TOU.