Weird Ring Gear Wear

[60wag]

Do you know if it has a crush sleeve or a solid spacer? If its stock, I think its old enough to have the solid spacer. Crushing a sleeve takes some wicked torque, crushing a spacer is darn near impossible. If you have to take the 60 to Memphis, I'd swap the diffs and let the former front diff do all the work while the questionable diff fills up the big hole in the front axle - or borrow a replacement diff for the rear.

 

[rover67]

welp drove it to work since it was too cold to bike. I was hoping the pinion would loosen up a bit but it's still tight as hell.

I thought about it and I need to try and keep 4wd in case the trip turns into an ice skating escapade like it has in years previous so I'm looking for a 3.73 3rd if anybody has one to just get me to memphis. I'll do the regear in memphis and come back on 4.88's hopefully. Does anybody have one sitting around? If not I can pull the one out of my 40, but i'd rather not do that just because it seems like more work right now and I only have a few days to get it sorted. I guess it's basically a wash though since it seems like it might only take an hour or so to pull the 3rd out of the 40.

Hey, at least I have options though. Kinda neat that the 40 stuff crosses over.

 

[subzali]

benefits of getting a later model 40...flanges match up too?

 

[RicardoJM]

benefits of getting a later model 40...flanges match up too?

If everything is stock, he should be ok. This diagram outlines the differences.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I thought about it and I need to try and keep 4wd in case the trip turns into an ice skating escapade like it has in years previous

It does seem like invariably one of the legs of our trips back to St Louis for the holidays ends up in a ground blizzard and snow packed highway from Burlington to Salina going 35 in 4wd-high.

 

[wesintl]

i have a 3.73 but i'm all the way the hell down here. you can just return it after your trip.

 

[MDH33]

benefits of getting a later model 40...flanges match up too?

Pretty sure 40 and 60 diff flanges are different.

 

[rover67]

So I think the best plan for me is to yank the diff out of the 40 and stick it in the 60. I am just worried about overtorquing the pinion nut like I did on the 60 diff last night since it sounds like I'll need to swap them.

Do these diffs require setup blocks to set the pinion depth or can you measure from the pinion face? Just wondering if I'll need any special tools to set up a new one.

 

[Red_Chili]

Pinion depth is already set by shims 'twixt the bearing and pinion. No touchee backlash. Do you mean pinion preload? If you have a crush sleeve, and need to replace the companion flange, you just need to install the changed companion flange (and maybe pinion seal for good measure... cheap insurance while you are at it). Then tighten a NEW pinion nut gently until the flange seats on the outboard pinion bearing, you will feel it. Since the bearings are used and preload with that sleeve was likely 0 by now, torque JUST A BIT (fraction of a turn), and stake the nut. This snugs things up without appreciably changing preload. Personally I do not find Lock-Tite to be overkill. Red. An air wrench will have no trouble with removal when the time comes.

Of course if you have a spacer, damn the torpedoes, full torque ahead. You won't change preload.

HTH. Most easily done when installed in both cases.

 

[wesintl]

I have a pair of crush sleeves if you need them.

 

[rover67]

Wait, so I can just throw a new crush sleeve in there and use a new nut and be done? My original crush sleeve "over crushed"?

Yes Wes, how can I get it from you? I'll PM you..

 

[wesintl]

or you can come down tonight. I'll be up til 11

i'm sure even christo is closer and has crush sleeves but i thought i'd offer since i have had them for 5 years and never used them when I swapped my 3.73 for fine spine 4.11's

 

[rover67]

Quick update, I think I've got it to where it'll make it there.

Thanks to everybody for the input, advice, offers for parts and parts.

I got a crush sleeve from Kevin and a new seal from napa and with advice from close friends on preload got it sorted. The pinion bearing nearest the flange looked OK even though I used the limping truck as a parts runner/get to work truck with the wicked tight pinion. I just didn't understand what I was doing when i cranked on it.

Phew.

Now to throw all the tools in the truck for the drive.. hoping i won't need them.

Thanks again all, you're great.

 

[rover67]

Pinion depth is already set by shims 'twixt the bearing and pinion. No touchee backlash. Do you mean pinion preload? If you have a crush sleeve, and need to replace the companion flange, you just need to install the changed companion flange (and maybe pinion seal for good measure... cheap insurance while you are at it). Then tighten a NEW pinion nut gently until the flange seats on the outboard pinion bearing, you will feel it. Since the bearings are used and preload with that sleeve was likely 0 by now, torque JUST A BIT (fraction of a turn), and stake the nut. This snugs things up without appreciably changing preload. Personally I do not find Lock-Tite to be overkill. Red. An air wrench will have no trouble with removal when the time comes.

Of course if you have a spacer, damn the torpedoes, full torque ahead. You won't change preload.

HTH. Most easily done when installed in both cases.

Now this all makse sense... I over torqued it the first time...

 

[Red_Chili]

It's gonna be almost impossible to install a new crush sleeve while the diff is in the truck... if it is anything like a minitruck diff. But if you did.. you did. Goodonya. The only difficulty I see is the near impossibility of determining pinion preload torque without a
1) dial inch/lb torque wrench, and
2) removing the diff from the housing, and
3) removing the carrier from the diff.

My opinion only, I defer to 'Da Boyz':
However you may be able to redneck it if you carefully crush the sleeve until you only just eliminate any play you feel, then crush just a bit more. You won't (shouldn't!) have enough backlash to really measure the pinion preload, but you may be able to tell by feel. Maybe.

I would not run the resulting assembly across country though. Pinion bearings like some preload but get fussy about too much or too little and will leave you 'in a tight spot' and shed bits all over, which makes a lot of noise and screws everything else up. I rather suspect they are female in nature. They definitely spin around fast, that must be it.

Carrier bearings must be male. Crank the hell out of the preload, give em appropriate quantities of fine fluid, and run them forever until everything around them falls apart. Then they die. Yep... Male.

 

[AxleIke]

It's gonna be almost impossible to install a new crush sleeve while the diff is in the truck... if it is anything like a minitruck diff. But if you did.. you did. Goodonya. The only difficulty I see is the near impossibility of determining pinion preload torque without a
1) dial inch/lb torque wrench, and
2) removing the diff from the housing, and
3) removing the carrier from the diff.

My opinion only, I defer to 'Da Boyz':
However you may be able to redneck it if you carefully crush the sleeve until you only just eliminate any play you feel, then crush just a bit more. You won't (shouldn't!) have enough backlash to really measure the pinion preload, but you may be able to tell by feel. Maybe.

I would not run the resulting assembly across country though. Pinion bearings like some preload but get fussy about too much or too little and will leave you 'in a tight spot' and shed bits all over, which makes a lot of noise and screws everything else up. I rather suspect they are female in nature. They definitely spin around fast, that must be it.

Carrier bearings must be male. Crank the hell out of the preload, give em appropriate quantities of fine fluid, and run them forever until everything around them falls apart. Then they die. Yep... Male.

Bill,

I chatted with Marco a bit about this.

Agreed that a set up needs to be done on the bench, but this diff is done anyway. From the amount of backlash he was talking about, its not good.

He's getting them rebuilt in Memphis with his new gears, and, I believe, a new carrier.

I told him exactly what you said, IE tigten it down until there is not play, then just a hair more. Not too far. It sounded like he got it.

Figured it would last for the next 1000 miles or so, enough to get to memphis. Or at least across the snow belt and he can swap the front in if needed.

I guess he'll see. We may see a post up on mud asking for help with a beige FJ-60 with a blown rear end needing a tow somewhere in the middle of kansas...

As I told marco though, I'm certainly no expert. I've read a lot, done a couple, and paid Robbie to build one and explain everything to me as he did it. Still feel like I just BARELY know whats going on in there.

Figured, if he didn't punch it, and baby'd it as much as possible, he'd get there.

 

[rover67]

The pinon has about a quarter of a turn of backlash so there is actually enough to feel the preload. Oddly enough the gears are quiet still... it's had a lot of backlash for a while now.

The new crush sleeve was easy to replace, just un screw nut, pull of flange, pop seal out, dig bearing out, and slide off crush sleeve. new went back in opposite. I tightened it down to crush the new sleeve (which was fun) and once at "zero" added just a touch more. I still gotta go measure it, but just past no preload is I think the consensus.

I think it'll make it with enough confidence to throw the whole "family" in the truck and go for it. we'll find out i guess. Like Isaac says... if you see a post on mud..

Anywho, I am having everything I need to get it done right (gears, bearings, gaskets, ect.)shipped to my old shop in memphis. My old boss at the first place I worked who has built lots of rearends for everything from road race cars to dump trucks is ready to help me build the rearends on Tuesday. My Christmas present will hopefully be my safe arrival and rebuilt axles.

If it makes it there I should be good to go.

I have lots of spare parts i'm taking with me including a rearend (with the wrong gears... but it's a spare), all the tools and spare axles.

 

[Red_Chili]

1/4 turn backlash... wow.
Sounds like you have it handled, good luck on your trip!!

 

[rover67]

1/4 turn backlash... wow.
Sounds like you have it handled, good luck on your trip!!

you should see what the ring and pinion look like...

 

[rover67]

Just made it! Truck actually did great.... I bet it could make it back no problem.

15mpg average at 75mph with the Goodyear MTR's at 35 psi. It only took us 16 1/2 hours.

Thanks again for all the input... I walked in the door here and tripped on a big box from Kurt at cruiser outfitters with two yukon 4.88 gear sets and two pinion install kits. Tuesday will be good to the cruiser...