DanielChase
Rising Sun Member
Bitcoin fixes this.
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JULY 2025 CLUB MEETING
Hi Guest: The next RS meeting will be Wednesday, July 2, 2025 at 7:30 p.m.
LOCATION: The meeting will be held at Cruisers and Company. Click here for details and directions.
⦿ If you are eligible for club membership, please fill out an application in advance of the meeting and bring it with you.
Weight-based vehicle fee coming to your driveway
- Thread starter ScaldedDog
- Start date
Lastresort576
Hard Core 4+
Man stuff like this is why I’ve come to terms with Colorado is a great place to visit, but kinda sucks to live in. At least on the front range.
SteveH
Hard Core 4+
......And my auto and homeowners insurance company, AAA, supports this nonsense bill. See attached.
I emailed the head proponent of this for AAA, and got a windy response about what a great idea it is. I will be shopping around for new insurance, as much as I like AAA, and I told her as much. Here was her closing thought: If that gives you pause to continue your relationship with AAA Insurance, I'm sorry for that. As you shop around, you may want to call and ask each insurer's position on this bill. I suspect many will also wind up supporting by dint of its potential to reduce payouts with regard to crashes and fatalities - thereby, hopefully, reducing insurance costs to Coloradans.
I emailed the head proponent of this for AAA, and got a windy response about what a great idea it is. I will be shopping around for new insurance, as much as I like AAA, and I told her as much. Here was her closing thought: If that gives you pause to continue your relationship with AAA Insurance, I'm sorry for that. As you shop around, you may want to call and ask each insurer's position on this bill. I suspect many will also wind up supporting by dint of its potential to reduce payouts with regard to crashes and fatalities - thereby, hopefully, reducing insurance costs to Coloradans.
Quoted from the CBS link - "We will create a separate enterprise, and the fees will be deposited into this enterprise and then grants will come out of that to local governments," said Cutter. "Cities can apply to do things to make their main streets safer and to provide their high traffic areas more safety for their pedestrians and bicyclists and all the vulnerable road users."
This is another garbage cash grab by the government. This is just like the Marijuana tax and the lottery tax money. All of this money is supposed to go to all these great humanitarian causes to support children and build parks and schools. What ends up happening is the state or local governments end up keeping the cash because the individuals who need the money don't realize they have to apply for the funds and then it has to be approved. The process ends up becoming so cumbersome that the money that is needed is mostly never used.
Colorado Lottery tax use:
Where do proceeds from Colorado Lottery go? In 1992, Colorado voters made the decision to distribute profits from the sale of Lottery products according to this formula: 50% to the Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO) Trust Fund, 40% to the Conservation Trust Fund, and 10% to Colorado Parks and Wildlife.
Marijuana tax use:
Amendment 64, which was passed by Colorado voters in 2012, allows adults 21 years of age or older to consume or possess up to one ounce of marijuana. Amendment 64 also required the state legislature to enact an excise tax on retail marijuana with the first $40 million in tax revenue per year dedicated to fund public school construction.
In 2013, Colorado voters approved Proposition AA, which allows the state to levy up to a 15 percent excise tax on unprocessed retail marijuana as well as up to a 15 percent retail sales tax on retail marijuana.1 Medical marijuana is subject to the 2.9 percent state sales tax, which applies to the retail sale of most goods and services. As voter-approved revenue, the 15 percent retail and 15 percent excise tax is exempt from the spending limits of TABOR. The 2.9 percent sales tax is subject to TABOR’s limits.
Tax Rate
Medical marijuana is subject to the 2.9 percent state sales tax, which is applied to most purchases of tangible personal property in the state while retail marijuana is exempt. Retail marijuana is subject to a 15 percent sales tax, levied on retail sales, and a 15 percent excise tax, levied on the first transfer of marijuana from a wholesaler to a processor or retailer.1
Tax Exemptions
Medical marijuana is exempt from the 15 percent sales tax and 15 percent excise tax.
Distribution
Via the Old Age Pension Fund, marijuana tax revenue is allocated to the General Fund.2 From the General Fund, revenue from the marijuana retail sales tax and excise tax are distributed differently.
Ten percent of the revenue from the 15 percent tax on marijuana retail sales is allocated to local governments and apportioned according to the percentage of marijuana retail sales occurring within city and county boundaries. The remaining 90 percent is allocated as follows:
71.85% to the Marijuana Tax Cash Fund;
15.56% to the General Fund; and
12.59% to the State Public School Fund.
Revenue in the Marijuana Tax Cash Fund is required to be used for health care, health education, substance abuse prevention and treatment programs, and law enforcement.3
The marijuana excise tax revenue is credited to the Building Excellent Schools Today (BEST) Fund.4 The BEST Fund is used to renew or replace deteriorating public schools. BEST grants are awarded on a competitive basis annually and funding is prioritized based on issues such as asbestos removal, building code violations, overcrowding, and poor indoor air quality.
Ask yourself, how many parks have been built using the lottery tax money? How many schools have been built funded with mary-jane tax? Every time I turn on the news a school is being shutdown due to dwindling attendance. If all this money is going to support parks where are they at? Just more BS from an unchecked government.
This is another garbage cash grab by the government. This is just like the Marijuana tax and the lottery tax money. All of this money is supposed to go to all these great humanitarian causes to support children and build parks and schools. What ends up happening is the state or local governments end up keeping the cash because the individuals who need the money don't realize they have to apply for the funds and then it has to be approved. The process ends up becoming so cumbersome that the money that is needed is mostly never used.
Colorado Lottery tax use:
Where do proceeds from Colorado Lottery go? In 1992, Colorado voters made the decision to distribute profits from the sale of Lottery products according to this formula: 50% to the Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO) Trust Fund, 40% to the Conservation Trust Fund, and 10% to Colorado Parks and Wildlife.
Marijuana tax use:
Amendment 64, which was passed by Colorado voters in 2012, allows adults 21 years of age or older to consume or possess up to one ounce of marijuana. Amendment 64 also required the state legislature to enact an excise tax on retail marijuana with the first $40 million in tax revenue per year dedicated to fund public school construction.
In 2013, Colorado voters approved Proposition AA, which allows the state to levy up to a 15 percent excise tax on unprocessed retail marijuana as well as up to a 15 percent retail sales tax on retail marijuana.1 Medical marijuana is subject to the 2.9 percent state sales tax, which applies to the retail sale of most goods and services. As voter-approved revenue, the 15 percent retail and 15 percent excise tax is exempt from the spending limits of TABOR. The 2.9 percent sales tax is subject to TABOR’s limits.
Tax Rate
Medical marijuana is subject to the 2.9 percent state sales tax, which is applied to most purchases of tangible personal property in the state while retail marijuana is exempt. Retail marijuana is subject to a 15 percent sales tax, levied on retail sales, and a 15 percent excise tax, levied on the first transfer of marijuana from a wholesaler to a processor or retailer.1
Tax Exemptions
Medical marijuana is exempt from the 15 percent sales tax and 15 percent excise tax.
Distribution
Via the Old Age Pension Fund, marijuana tax revenue is allocated to the General Fund.2 From the General Fund, revenue from the marijuana retail sales tax and excise tax are distributed differently.
Ten percent of the revenue from the 15 percent tax on marijuana retail sales is allocated to local governments and apportioned according to the percentage of marijuana retail sales occurring within city and county boundaries. The remaining 90 percent is allocated as follows:
71.85% to the Marijuana Tax Cash Fund;
15.56% to the General Fund; and
12.59% to the State Public School Fund.
Revenue in the Marijuana Tax Cash Fund is required to be used for health care, health education, substance abuse prevention and treatment programs, and law enforcement.3
The marijuana excise tax revenue is credited to the Building Excellent Schools Today (BEST) Fund.4 The BEST Fund is used to renew or replace deteriorating public schools. BEST grants are awarded on a competitive basis annually and funding is prioritized based on issues such as asbestos removal, building code violations, overcrowding, and poor indoor air quality.
Ask yourself, how many parks have been built using the lottery tax money? How many schools have been built funded with mary-jane tax? Every time I turn on the news a school is being shutdown due to dwindling attendance. If all this money is going to support parks where are they at? Just more BS from an unchecked government.
Yarn Cruiser
Club Secretary
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2020
- Messages
- 815
Same here. I just love it when they are left in the middle of the bike path, sidewalk and I am sure one has been left in the middle of the road.
BritKLR
Vice Commander
It's called "Supplanting" (or also more commonly known as bait and switch) and elected officials love it.
They want more dollars for their pet projects but know they can't use general revenue funds due it being committed to current expenditures (roads, schools, parks, services, etc...)
So, they come up with a Unicorn tax, fee, proposition, assessment that will be dedicated to popular, feel good things like kids, schools, parks, roads, homeless, etc....
Once the Unicorn tax is passed, they move the new Unicorn funds to those existing and funded programs (kids, schools, parks, etc.....) and remove and reassign (supplant) the current general revenue funds (which they have sole discretion on) to their pet projects (and do a press release on how they "cut the budget", "made hard decisions", "worked for the people", "found unused dollars to fund their pet projects), BS after BS......)
Lottery funds supplanted existing general revenue funds for schools.
MJ funds supplanted lottery funds for schools supplanted by Lottery funds.
On and on and on.....the net change was zero.
I mean, think about it? If they didn't supplant existing funds from say Schools 20 years ago and simply added Lottery funds and MJ funds and all the local special assessment funds on top of the current general revenue funds how many billions of dollars would Colorado schools have? But, every couple of years they have to come up with a new Unicorn tax to fund............SCHOOLS.......Where does all that money go?
As for "mini grants" for schools, parks, whatever and why most cities, counties, state departments don't go after the grants? Because the state specifically states the taxing entity "CAN NOT SUPPLANT EXISTING GENERAL REVENUE FUNDS AND MUST FIND NEW MONEY" to be eligible for the grant funds! Well most taxing entities don't have millions of dollars just sitting in a bank to "match" to grant funds so they simply don't apply. The money then stays in interest earning accounts and over the course of time the general public forgets why they are being taxed (3-5 years) and then the legislature "finds" this pot of unused money in their budget and moves to have it reassigned to general revenue (shell game)......to fund another new pet project and make more self serving, pat on the back press releases.
Cheers.
BTW....I forgot to mention that the State, like most State Governments has a fully Tax Payer funded department within State Government that does nothing but researches and writes these types of proposals. They are typically called the " Research Department". They have access to all tax payer funded historical records, all state departments, lawyers, etc....Not to mention the special interest lobbyists (lawyers) that help lubricate the system in their best interest.....So, the ironic thing about all this is we're paying for all this....again.
(Special fortune telling note: I bet anyone that in 1-3 years the legislature will create a new "Unicorn" proposal/tax/funding bill for schools.
They want more dollars for their pet projects but know they can't use general revenue funds due it being committed to current expenditures (roads, schools, parks, services, etc...)
So, they come up with a Unicorn tax, fee, proposition, assessment that will be dedicated to popular, feel good things like kids, schools, parks, roads, homeless, etc....
Once the Unicorn tax is passed, they move the new Unicorn funds to those existing and funded programs (kids, schools, parks, etc.....) and remove and reassign (supplant) the current general revenue funds (which they have sole discretion on) to their pet projects (and do a press release on how they "cut the budget", "made hard decisions", "worked for the people", "found unused dollars to fund their pet projects), BS after BS......)
Lottery funds supplanted existing general revenue funds for schools.
MJ funds supplanted lottery funds for schools supplanted by Lottery funds.
On and on and on.....the net change was zero.
I mean, think about it? If they didn't supplant existing funds from say Schools 20 years ago and simply added Lottery funds and MJ funds and all the local special assessment funds on top of the current general revenue funds how many billions of dollars would Colorado schools have? But, every couple of years they have to come up with a new Unicorn tax to fund............SCHOOLS.......Where does all that money go?
As for "mini grants" for schools, parks, whatever and why most cities, counties, state departments don't go after the grants? Because the state specifically states the taxing entity "CAN NOT SUPPLANT EXISTING GENERAL REVENUE FUNDS AND MUST FIND NEW MONEY" to be eligible for the grant funds! Well most taxing entities don't have millions of dollars just sitting in a bank to "match" to grant funds so they simply don't apply. The money then stays in interest earning accounts and over the course of time the general public forgets why they are being taxed (3-5 years) and then the legislature "finds" this pot of unused money in their budget and moves to have it reassigned to general revenue (shell game)......to fund another new pet project and make more self serving, pat on the back press releases.
Cheers.
BTW....I forgot to mention that the State, like most State Governments has a fully Tax Payer funded department within State Government that does nothing but researches and writes these types of proposals. They are typically called the " Research Department". They have access to all tax payer funded historical records, all state departments, lawyers, etc....Not to mention the special interest lobbyists (lawyers) that help lubricate the system in their best interest.....So, the ironic thing about all this is we're paying for all this....again.
(Special fortune telling note: I bet anyone that in 1-3 years the legislature will create a new "Unicorn" proposal/tax/funding bill for schools.
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patrickhrco
Trail Ready
With the rise of EVs and the weight they have, this is one way to pay for the $5,000 tax credit that each EV owner receives.
Help me understand this. in 2002 there were 71 deaths reported, and 111 reported in 2022. https://www.codot.gov/news/2023/june/pedestrian-fatalities-hit-all-time-high-in-2022
In 2002 there were 2,066,000 people living in Denver, and 2,897,000 in 2022. https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22972/denver/population
isn't that a 56% increase in traffic deaths, and a population increased of 40%? not saying I like the added tax, but I don't see the data supporting what you're saying here. did I do the math wrong?
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
@nakman, one stat is state-wide fatalities and the other is Denver population. You'd need to make sure to keep like and like.
Colorado 2002 population was 4,490,406
Colorado 2022 population was 5,839,926
Customarily you'd do some reasonable number so make population in 100k, e.g. 44.91k and 58.40k.
So 2002 accidents are 1.58 per 100k (71/44.91k) and 2022 was 1.90 fatalities per 100k (111/58.4). You could say the fatality rate increased by approximately 20% from 2002 to 2022.
www.macrotrends.net
Still supports your argument and it's statistically equivalent at least.
I'd suggest that the correct metric isn't population but something like miles driven or number of registered drivers. Maybe something like average age of drivers. Even could do some deeper analysis like number of miles traveled using various modes or types of vehicles and public transit.
It might be that there's more miles done by pedestrians and bicycles in 2022 so it's a function of more people on foot vs in cars so the relative risk of being hit is higher is all.
IOW if you double the number of people walking to the bus or train in 2022 but keep the population the same you're bound to see more hit pedestrians just by probability. In that case the number of miles driven would presumably be lower, too, which would compound the relative risk.
Colorado 2002 population was 4,490,406
Colorado 2022 population was 5,839,926
Customarily you'd do some reasonable number so make population in 100k, e.g. 44.91k and 58.40k.
So 2002 accidents are 1.58 per 100k (71/44.91k) and 2022 was 1.90 fatalities per 100k (111/58.4). You could say the fatality rate increased by approximately 20% from 2002 to 2022.
Colorado Population 1900-2024
Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the state of Colorado from 1900 to 2024.
www.macrotrends.net
Still supports your argument and it's statistically equivalent at least.
I'd suggest that the correct metric isn't population but something like miles driven or number of registered drivers. Maybe something like average age of drivers. Even could do some deeper analysis like number of miles traveled using various modes or types of vehicles and public transit.
It might be that there's more miles done by pedestrians and bicycles in 2022 so it's a function of more people on foot vs in cars so the relative risk of being hit is higher is all.
IOW if you double the number of people walking to the bus or train in 2022 but keep the population the same you're bound to see more hit pedestrians just by probability. In that case the number of miles driven would presumably be lower, too, which would compound the relative risk.
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DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
BTW, it looks like data such as this might exist.
Without going into a bunch of rabbit holes and using national data as a very simple comparison, the number of miles driven in 2022 was 3,300,000 million (yeah, a ton, 3.3 trillion miles) and in 2002 it was 2,850,000. So that suggests a ~15% increase in miles driven. That might be one explanation why there were more pedestrians hit.
The shape of this graph seems to align vaguely to the CDOT annual injuries so I'd be willing to say an analysis would find at least weak correlation.
Moving 12-Month Total Vehicle Miles Traveled
Graph and download economic data for Moving 12-Month Total Vehicle Miles Traveled (M12MTVUSM227NFWA) from Dec 1970 to Apr 2025 about miles, travel, vehicles, and USA.
fred.stlouisfed.org
Without going into a bunch of rabbit holes and using national data as a very simple comparison, the number of miles driven in 2022 was 3,300,000 million (yeah, a ton, 3.3 trillion miles) and in 2002 it was 2,850,000. So that suggests a ~15% increase in miles driven. That might be one explanation why there were more pedestrians hit.
The shape of this graph seems to align vaguely to the CDOT annual injuries so I'd be willing to say an analysis would find at least weak correlation.
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ok thanks Dave, good to see there's at least some correlation here.
The article has an example for a F150 truck. "A 2022 Ford F150 with a maximum curb weight of 5,740 lbs would fall under the fee category of one cent per dollar per pound in the range of 5,500 to 6,500 lbs for a total fee of $57.40." typos aside, I wonder what the tier is for vehicles over 6500 pounds? We all know a "built" truck will add 2k pounds to the curb weight easily... well past 6500. Hopefully they don't start requiring everyone to go to a certified scale each year to renew.
The article has an example for a F150 truck. "A 2022 Ford F150 with a maximum curb weight of 5,740 lbs would fall under the fee category of one cent per dollar per pound in the range of 5,500 to 6,500 lbs for a total fee of $57.40." typos aside, I wonder what the tier is for vehicles over 6500 pounds? We all know a "built" truck will add 2k pounds to the curb weight easily... well past 6500. Hopefully they don't start requiring everyone to go to a certified scale each year to renew.
J1000
Rising Sun Member
Vehicle weight and pedestrian safety have very little to do with eachother. It's just another aimless money grab. Pedestrian fatality is pretty much linked to the speed of the vehicle. No other stat is relevant enough to make an impact. Traffic accidents are going up because literally everyone is on their phone scrolling some app. I even see grey haired grandmas on their phone while driving.
BritKLR
Vice Commander
With all due respect this statistical conversation doesn't mean anything without the specific information from each crash/Ped death. It's a classic example of using broad data to make a narrow point they want to make. Yet, the data doesn't actually support it......it's just a pet project for someone.
For example, what if 90% of the Ped deaths were a result of being hit by hondas, toyotas, kias, compact cars, motorcycles? Would that fit their narrative for "weight kills"?
What if 30% of the deaths were a result secondary injuries following the initial impact?
How do commercial vehicles factor in? (buses, trucks, construction machinery, tractors, etc?)
Who is actually analyzing each of these crashes? I suspect the legislature has directed the CHP to pull and provide the data (normal) but their own analysts are running the gross numbers to match their arguement.
I guess my main point would be take a look at the current Colorado STAR Accident Report and see all the data points that they can draw from that contribute to a crash.......yet, weight is the current "cash cow" they're going after.
For example, what if 90% of the Ped deaths were a result of being hit by hondas, toyotas, kias, compact cars, motorcycles? Would that fit their narrative for "weight kills"?
What if 30% of the deaths were a result secondary injuries following the initial impact?
How do commercial vehicles factor in? (buses, trucks, construction machinery, tractors, etc?)
Who is actually analyzing each of these crashes? I suspect the legislature has directed the CHP to pull and provide the data (normal) but their own analysts are running the gross numbers to match their arguement.
I guess my main point would be take a look at the current Colorado STAR Accident Report and see all the data points that they can draw from that contribute to a crash.......yet, weight is the current "cash cow" they're going after.
PVCsnorkel
Lifted
Does this bill also cover people who have in-bed campers which can increase weight by 50%+?
What about if you tow a trailer? Does the tax go up if i have a 8,000lbs skid steer on a trailer as opposed to a pop up camper?
There's a lot of holes in this bill and I can't see it passing. Then again all these "van-life" do-gooders will probably pay for it without realizing they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Man it was a good idea to stay on New Jersey registration.
What about if you tow a trailer? Does the tax go up if i have a 8,000lbs skid steer on a trailer as opposed to a pop up camper?
There's a lot of holes in this bill and I can't see it passing. Then again all these "van-life" do-gooders will probably pay for it without realizing they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Man it was a good idea to stay on New Jersey registration.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
@BritKLR
CDOT aggregates it all. Like I said, it'd take a deep dive to plow through but it's all there. By age, by vehicle type, by region, county, city, interchange type, speed, highway type. Whenever there's a serious accident CDOT has a system called FARS - Fatal Accident Reporting System - where they collect data that might be of relevance to planners, engineers, operations, maintenance, etc. Now there's absolutely a disconnect from the upper levels and politicians as to what it means and how it affects their agenda... I can assure you it really bothers everyone doing the grunt work when someone is hurt or killed. But directors and legislature aren't the ones in front of the Board defending their decisions and their licenses, so there's not nearly the same kinds of consequence to a decision they make.
https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety/assets/
Just one random example.
CDOT aggregates it all. Like I said, it'd take a deep dive to plow through but it's all there. By age, by vehicle type, by region, county, city, interchange type, speed, highway type. Whenever there's a serious accident CDOT has a system called FARS - Fatal Accident Reporting System - where they collect data that might be of relevance to planners, engineers, operations, maintenance, etc. Now there's absolutely a disconnect from the upper levels and politicians as to what it means and how it affects their agenda... I can assure you it really bothers everyone doing the grunt work when someone is hurt or killed. But directors and legislature aren't the ones in front of the Board defending their decisions and their licenses, so there's not nearly the same kinds of consequence to a decision they make.
https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety/assets/
Just one random example.
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nuclearlemon
Hard Core 4+
careful with that...you get caught and it's stupid money. decades ago, a coworkers wife got a $1500 ticket for still having texas plates and licenses while living in colorady.
simps80
Rising Sun Member
What about drug use from 2002 to 2022?
Is that charted anywhere in the data correlating ped death increase vs population increase vs vehicle weight
It’s just a money grab to fit someone’s agenda
Is that charted anywhere in the data correlating ped death increase vs population increase vs vehicle weight
It’s just a money grab to fit someone’s agenda
DouglasVB
Rising Sun Member
Has anyone thought to fill their rigs with helium to make them lighter to beat the tax?
LARGEONE
Rising Sun Member
The only statistics that matter are how many more people are walking or driving while staring at their cell phones. Or driving totally high or otherwise not paying attention. Plus, people are still getting used to electric cars...drivers getting used to the power, and pedestrians getting used to not hearing them.
The following commentary should not be taken seriously:Just one random example.
"Given that dataset, I think I'd be more worried about the 34% of fatalities coming from drivers<65. We should impose more taxes.
Pedestrians would probably be my 4th largest concern after the " Drivers <65, passengers (in general), and motorcycles/scooters.
Given this set of data, I would probably outlaw everything except for bicycles given their stunning "3.0% of total accidents.""
The conclusions drawn from a cursory analysis doesn't seem to point at larger vehicles being the culprit. These datasets appear to be incomplete, and as Dave said: "absolutely disconnect(ed) from the upper levels and politicians as to what it means and how it affects their agenda."
This shit's wack.
Cash grab.