Synthetic Oil Switchover Mileage
- Thread starter DaveInDenver
- Start date
Evrgrnmtnman
Trail Ready
I now have 3,300 miles on my rebuilt motor(22RE) in my 88 Pickup. It took till about 3,000 miles for the rings to seat themselves. However, I plan to wait till 5K to change over to Mobil 1 Syn. My two cents.....
Also, I fill mine to the full 5 qts. with a filter to bring the oil to the top line on the dipstick. I know that the books says 4.5, but that puts it about halfway between the lines on the dipstick.
Also, I fill mine to the full 5 qts. with a filter to bring the oil to the top line on the dipstick. I know that the books says 4.5, but that puts it about halfway between the lines on the dipstick.
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DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
How did you determine your rings seated? Compression check? If so, what are you getting for a ratio?
I just did an oil change (regular GTX) this past weekend. Using the common Toyota filter (90915-YZZ-something, made in Thailand) it took a splash more than 4.5 quarts to hit the top of the hatching on the dip stick. That's the way it's always been for me. In the course of about 3500 miles I was down about 1/4 of the hatching, so maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a quart.
I just did an oil change (regular GTX) this past weekend. Using the common Toyota filter (90915-YZZ-something, made in Thailand) it took a splash more than 4.5 quarts to hit the top of the hatching on the dip stick. That's the way it's always been for me. In the course of about 3500 miles I was down about 1/4 of the hatching, so maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a quart.
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
You can try 'dry' and 'wet' compression checks and compare, I would think. The well seasoned 22REs I've done recently (93 truck, 88 truck) came in at >160psi (more like 170psi) dry and at operating temps. Do full throttle.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
OK, I've never measured higher than 160 psi on 22R and 22R-E engines here in Denver (sample size of 4, 3 of which were admittedly at least 150K or older). A stock 22R-E should have a 9.3:1 ratio, which at sea level (14.7 psi) should result in 186 psi when compressed. This agrees with the FSM, which says 181 psi is the max pressure. My old engine was around 140 psi at last check, which was at least a year before the timing chain incident. That 1984 Dean and I bought-n-sold, Dean's 20R and now my new 22R-E are all have been in the 135 to 155 psi range.
When you correct for the typical ambient air pressure here at 5,280' AMSL (12.2 psi), that gives a compressed pressure of 155 psi with a 9.3:1 ratio. That's in the range of value I was getting when I stopped obsessing about it. My compression ratio is a bit lower than stock because of the enlarged combustion chambers and stock deck height and so I figured I should expect more like 151 psi with a ratio of 9.1:1 to 9.2:1. I have not done the calculations to find my exact ratio because I forgot to measure the piston-to-deck height before I put the head on. So I dunno my exact combustion chamber volume. But in any case, I figured with minimal carbon build-up I should expect 150 to 155 psi with regular weather. I do them at full operating temp (minus the time it takes for me to burn my arms pulling the plugs), WOT and plenty of cranks. The needle stops moving + 3 or 4 more cranks.
All of this also agrees with the rule of thumb about altitude compensation.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_Engine_Rebuild/mult_engine_rebuild-2.htm
Altitude Factor
500 0.987
1500 0.960
2500 0.933
3500 0.907
4500 0.880
5500 0.853
6500 0.826
7500 0.800
8500 0.773
181 psi * 0.853 = 154.4 psi
I was doing a wet test and there was some question as to how much oil to squirt in there (I'd heard to shoot for 2 tablespoons and that's hard to estimate with a leaky turkey baster). I was getting such wildly varying pressure, from just a slightly bump to 160 psi all the way up to 190 psi, that I just figured that I was too inconsistent with the oil in the chamber to be useful. With what I would call a heavy mist of oil my pressure only jumped around 5 psi and that I think is most useful in convincing me my rings are seated. My dry tests are even across all 4 cylinders, well within the 5% from highest to lowest (~5 psi).
Also, my compression checker is not a particular good one. It was $20 or something at Sears. There could be some accuracy inconsistencies between tools and so I'm happy if I'm within about 5% of my expected value of 151 psi, which would be 144 psi to 159 psi. So, yeah, I've thought about it a little...
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Evrgrnmtnman
Trail Ready
Wow! That's alot of information there Dave, but good info.... After about 1500 miles on my new engine it started going through oil, total about 3.5 quarts in a span of about another 1,300 miles(so lets say 2,800miles on the engine) which made me nervous, but after speaking with my mechanic and reading more about rings seating I calmed down, and sure enough the engine quit going through oil. Now, let me clarify where the oil was going I have no idea. No leaks, no blumes of smoke, kind of mystery because nothing was visible to the naked eye. After many checks of the oil level for the past 500 miles it has held steady and has needed no more oil added, so I assume that the rings finally did get seated.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Wow, a buck a quart. That's even way cheaper than regular dino oil.
Evrgrnmtnman
Trail Ready
Might have to go with the Valvoline since that's what I'm using right now in my pickup(regular 10-30W oil). Any feedback as far as Valvoline Syn. VS. Mobil 1 Syn.????
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I'm not sure about specific ingredient breakdown anymore, but generally speaking, it seems like the fully synthetic oils go through phases of popularity. For a while it was Mobil1, then the German Castrol, and lately it's been the Penn Platinum that gets all the good vibes. Valvoline gets good feedback on BITOG - just hasn't had its place at the top of the popularity polls yet.
I shop around for the best price between Mobil, Valvoline and Pennzoil (not big on the Castrol Syntec), and go with it. I've run several cycles of the 5W-30 Synpower in my Tacoma, and UOA's have come back very strong. And at .99 cents / qt, you get all the benefits of fully synthetic, but don't have to feel guilty at all about dumping it after 3, 4 , or 5K miles.
I shop around for the best price between Mobil, Valvoline and Pennzoil (not big on the Castrol Syntec), and go with it. I've run several cycles of the 5W-30 Synpower in my Tacoma, and UOA's have come back very strong. And at .99 cents / qt, you get all the benefits of fully synthetic, but don't have to feel guilty at all about dumping it after 3, 4 , or 5K miles.
^ I guess its some of that. The whole group 3/group 4 thing is a guessing game, and it seems to be more myth than fact. The "internet facts" seem to confirm that Mobil1 and German Castrol are "mostly group IV", and the rest are either group III, or group III with some blended group IV.
But for me it's probably more environmental than anything; my Dad was a die hard Valvoline guy (and Amoco gas), so some of that probably stuck. I've used the GTX dyno before in my old Subaru, and I believe I'm running the Castrol high mileage in the 40 at the moment, so I'm not totally anti-Castrol.
But for the synthetics, Mobil1 (wife's car) and Synpower (the Taco) have been my preference. And like you, I try to pick a flavor and stick to it.
But for me it's probably more environmental than anything; my Dad was a die hard Valvoline guy (and Amoco gas), so some of that probably stuck. I've used the GTX dyno before in my old Subaru, and I believe I'm running the Castrol high mileage in the 40 at the moment, so I'm not totally anti-Castrol.
But for the synthetics, Mobil1 (wife's car) and Synpower (the Taco) have been my preference. And like you, I try to pick a flavor and stick to it.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Decision time. Need to refill my crankcase this morning. Just drained Castrol GTX 10W40. Sitting at about 197,500 on the clock, so that means I have about 10,500 miles on the rebuild.
- Castrol GTX 10W30
- Castrol GTX 10W40
- Go synthetic already, you dork!
- Castrol Syntec 10W30
- Castrol Syntec 10W40
- Mobil 1 10W30 (supposedly too thin, right?)
- Mobil 1 10W40
- Rotella (high zinc is good, right?)
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
Forget Castrol and Mobil1 (quality has decreased). The best oils (and synthetic is justified in your case I think) are Pennz Platinum, and Valvoline Synpower full synthetic. 10W30 or 5W30.
Per BITOG.
Per BITOG.
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Good to know about Mobil, everyone used to say that it was good.
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
It use to be, and it still mostly is... but not like it used to be per testing. I'd use it if it was dirt cheap or something, but next change will be Valvoline Synpower.
I just can't bring myself to use Pennzoil.
I understand there are frequent BOGO offers on Synpower too, at Advance Auto. I saw Checkers had a rebate (I hate rebates, just give me the discount!) a while back.
http://www.dealighted.com/?search=BOGO+Valvoline+SynPower+synthetic+motor+oil+@+Advance
http://www.dealgonzo.com/category/auto Kinda aged.
I just can't bring myself to use Pennzoil.
I understand there are frequent BOGO offers on Synpower too, at Advance Auto. I saw Checkers had a rebate (I hate rebates, just give me the discount!) a while back.
http://www.dealighted.com/?search=BOGO+Valvoline+SynPower+synthetic+motor+oil+@+Advance
http://www.dealgonzo.com/category/auto Kinda aged.
I just can't bring myself to use Pennzoil.
I almost replied that very answer but chose to keep my fingers quiet...
I use Synpower in the boxes and Dino in the engine. I also change my oil every 3K which makes Dino shine as a choice!
DaveInDenver
Rising Sun Ham Guru
Running short on time today and had GTX 10W30 and 10W40 on hand. Went with 10W30, for better or worse (the owner's manual lists 10W30 and 10W40 over the same operating range, I dunno). Probably revisit the question after the trip since I'm pretty sold on synthetic at the moment. I put MT90 in the transmission and that has helped, it shifts noticeably better. I also filled the rear axle with standard Redline 75W90 and I'm surprised at how cool the housing is to the touch when I get home. I mean it's barely warmer than ambient. Running plain old Castrol Hypoy 75W90 in the transfer, though. Something of a spastic mix of lubrications, eh?
Red_Chili
Hard Core 4+
Something like the mix I'm running!