State-wide new law for collector plates

[jettaglxdriver]

I do have a innovate LM1 wideband so I can tune right where I want the AF. I do know to drive it and run it a bit hot to wake the cat up also. With a simple twist of a knob I can manually adjust my richness by 1% increments.

 

[leiniesred]

Aw this blows.

I was REALLY looking forward to just a couple more e-tests on my ol' 4Runner there. *sigh* I mean how many more years can I expect the original CAT to work?

That Rush song, "Red Barchetta" is sounding more and more plausible.

 

[Beater]

When you go to pass emissions, make sure you have it tuned to be running as closely to 14.7:1 as possible. Running it leaner than that will not put enough fuel in the exhaust for the cat to work. Richer does OK, but cats (at least the normal ones) were designed to run at 14.7:1. turn the boost way down to avoid and issues and go for it.

I have no idea how the visuals work with aftermarket turbo cars here.

My favorite emissions test ever:

My porsche turbo was an 82, therefore it had to go the new route, the first year it started. There were only something like 2500 of my car made world wide, so it was not exactly well known. The turbo system and injection was (ahem) slightly modified and I was quite concerned on the visual inspection. I had installed boost filters, wastegate controls, different injectors, etc etc etc. I was quite confident though, due to the motronic/cis system, it would pass. Especially with the boost set to 7psi.

so anyway, I pop the hood latch and wait. The 21 yr old methed out looking dude working the line comes up with his clipboard to check it out. He can't figure out the bonnet, so I go open it with him. He immediately says: "holy sh!t" when he looks at the motor, shakes his head, closes the bonnet and marks me as a "pass". He then looks at my factory 3" exhaust, and says: "you still have a cat?" I say yes, and onto the dyno I go.

That dyno run was one of the scariest things I've witnessed. If any of you have ever driven an early porsche turbo, you know they had some lag issues, and i thought that driver was going to piss himself all over my recaro's...

 

[jettaglxdriver]

Yeah if my Jetta ever gets on their dyno (2" off the road I doubt it) I will have the boost controller turned off so it makes 5psi.

 

[nakman]

Personally, I believe this is only partially related to better emissions on vehicles, it has everything to do with budget shortfalls and trying to come up with new ways to increase revenue. Someone sat down and did the math on how many vehicles were qualifying for cheap plates via the old collector program and determined how much additional revenue the state can generate if they require regular plates to be purchased each year.

I'm not sure I buy that.. in fact from operating costs alone, I don't see how there's any profit at at all either the Air Care place or the DMV, particularly on older vehicles. You spend 30 minutes at the emissions place while 3 guys run around all doing their part... what's their burdened labor rate? what about the overhead of the joint? How does my $25 even cover that? They do a little better at the DMV, there may have actually been profit in that transaction for the state when I trade them $50 for some stickers... but man, not much. I would guess the motivation is more on improving air quality, and knowing that it will further burden the loser aircare establishments, and figuring they'll just increase tax elsewhere to cover the shortfall.

 

[nuclearlemon]

Uh, what? Who came up with 33 years old as the cutoff date?

This is stupid. Way to ask the taxpayer what their opinion was...

76 is when fed emissions began.

 

[nuclearlemon]

I have no issues with us making our cars run better. it's when they pass the sniffer but fail because they don't have something on them that i get pissed! what a vehicle has on it has nothing to do with the sniffer. my dearly departed nuclearlemon passed the sniffer with flying colors but failed because there was no air rail. wtf is that?!

i agree, it's a budget thing. i don't think they mean to eliminate collector plates, they'll still be around at the f'n $40 increase per year (thanks governer a-hole ritter), but they will collect the emissions fees on the vehicles every year now.

air care colorado is hiring minimum wage monkeys who probably don't even have a car, so yes, they are making money. they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't making money. so two $7.25/hr employees are running three cars through every 20 minutes or so, costing $14.50/hr and bringing in $225/hr. not including what the gov't gives air care to run the program.

 

[corsair23]

What has always had me stumped is how the vehicle in front of me that is OBVIOUSLY burning oil (you'd have to be blind to miss the plume of blue smoke) passed the etest? How do I know it passed? Just look at the tags...

Case in point was a small sedan that was in front of me the other day (Accord or similar) that was spewing a trail of blue smoke...Tags on the plate showed an expiration of 8 2010

 

[Air Randy]

I have no issues with us making our cars run better. it's when they pass the sniffer but fail because they don't have something on them that i get pissed! what a vehicle has on it has nothing to do with the sniffer. my dearly departed nuclearlemon passed the sniffer with flying colors but failed because there was no air rail. wtf is that?!

i agree, it's a budget thing. i don't think they mean to eliminate collector plates, they'll still be around at the f'n $40 increase per year (thanks governer a-hole ritter), but they will collect the emissions fees on the vehicles every year now.

air care colorado is hiring minimum wage monkeys who probably don't even have a car, so yes, they are making money. they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't making money. so two $7.25/hr employees are running three cars through every 20 minutes or so, costing $14.50/hr and bringing in $225/hr. not including what the gov't gives air care to run the program.

Totally agree, and to further address Nakman's rebuttal think even bigger picture: By making it tougher for people with older cars to pass emissions they force them to upgrade to a new or newer vehicle. They accomplish the goal of getting older, dirtier vehicles off of the road PLUS they also make huge amounts of money for the fees they collect on plates for new/newer vehicles not to mention the sales tax collected.

 

[nakman]

...By making it tougher for people with older cars to pass emissions they force them to upgrade to a new or newer vehicle. They accomplish the goal of getting older, dirtier vehicles off of the road PLUS they also make huge amounts of money for the fees they collect on plates for new/newer vehicles not to mention the sales tax collected.

No I agree the motive is to get old cars off the road and replace them with cleaner ones. And I also don't really mind that, it seems reasonable and responsible to me. Relying on them to look for equipment that is/isn't supposed to be there is another thing though, I'm surprised they even know what an air rail is, and I know some have bolted on fake cats to pass the visual test.

But I just don't see the profit center in those air care places like you guys do.. with all the wages, management overhead, insurance, rent, utilities, plus the maintenance and payments on those machines & equipment... you think you can gross a couple grand a day and cover the nut? Heck no, and you you already said it "...including what the gov't gives air care to run the program.." that's right whole operation is subsidized, and increasing the burden for more testing will only increase that tax burden. and that figure is going to go up, not down.

Brand new cars are emissions-exempt anyway, if there was profit in emissions testing how is that even allowable?

 

[Beater]

a good friend of mine oversees the program from a state point of view. "they make target" is all I have ever gotten out of him.

 

[nuclearlemon]

But I just don't see the profit center in those air care places like you guys do.. with all the wages, management overhead, insurance, rent, utilities, plus the maintenance and payments on those machines & equipment... you think you can gross a couple grand a day and cover the nut?

we sell approx $15k-20k in our parts department every day at work. we're open 24 hours, from 9pm to 7am we are not making any money (trust me i've subbed on that shift a lot) so that is a complete loss. we have the same issues...mortgage, utilities, managment, overhead, wages, cell phones for half the parts department, delivery truck insurance/fuel/maintenance/purchase, building maintenance, equipment costs, plus we have the cost of parts. the biggest dollar tickets are usually at the lowest percentage, so we're not making a huge percentage on the majority. true, we have a service department, but they are not a huge money maker and have lost money the last few months. yes, we have truck sales, but they also have been hit hard the last year and a half are currently losing money.

if they are making $225/per lane per hour, at approximately 8 lanes, and only 10 hours a day, they are making $18k/day. i'm guessing at 8 lanes, that seems about right from what i remember. throw in vin inspections at $12/per. now add what the state pays them to run the program (i don't know how much that is, but i do know it is there...that's why all the little shops that used to do 81 and older are gone...they weren't subsidized).

 

[nuclearlemon]

a good friend of mine oversees the program from a state point of view. "they make target" is all I have ever gotten out of him.

tell your friend to never meet me. i will have to kill him after the last two times i went there when one of their monkeys totally screwed up the hood of my 76 and they said that they didn't see that in the video. he slammed it hard enough twice for me to hear it from inside the booth, with a car on the dyno right next to me, then tried to drive over the wheel chock and didn't disconnect whatever they put on the hood before driving off. I have heard horror stories from almost every single person i've talked to regarding airscare colorado.

btw, they supposedly don't allow videotaping or cameras there. wonder why? afraid the public have their own proof of the incompetant crap that goes on there?

 

[Air Randy]

Nakman, I agree the air test center may be marginal on profit. My point is they will make it up on license plate revenye because you're paying the full value each year versus a fraction of that total for a 5 year collector plate. And, if you give up on trying to keep the old one running they make a killing on the sales tax on new plates when you buy another vehicle.

Are they making enough with this move to pay off the national debt? No, but in todays budget environments they are looking at any increase in revenue, no matter how small. This way, come election time, they can say they didn't raise taxes but still met the financial obligations................

 

[nakman]

I have seen those kids drive all of my built trucks on those dynos, and it really scares me. The worst was the 80 once, he had that thing going side to side for a second there and I about ran out and moved the fan out of the way, figured if it got away he'd be able to drive it out... I really hate that experience.

and enough said on revenue, I think we're all pretty much in agreement. If you really want to get me going ask me what I think about paying sales tax every time a car changes hands...

 

[nuclearlemon]

ask me what I think about paying sales tax every time a car changes hands...

nothing quite like a double tax...get taxed when you make the money and get taxed when you spend the money

 

[MDH33]

What has always had me stumped is how the vehicle in front of me that is OBVIOUSLY burning oil (you'd have to be blind to miss the plume of blue smoke) passed the etest? How do I know it passed? Just look at the tags...

Case in point was a small sedan that was in front of me the other day (Accord or similar) that was spewing a trail of blue smoke...Tags on the plate showed an expiration of 8 2010

I just passed with my 60 (good numbers too!) and I guarantee you do not want to be behind that thing in the morning as it blows thick, huge clouds of blue smoke for the first 10 minutes, or anytime I'm engine braking. The compression is so bad I have to drive all the passes (and most hills) in second gear. When it was on the dyno, they weren't able to get it to go over 60MPH.

 

[corsair23]

Interesting Martin...Maybe I need to re-read the pass/fail requirements because my understanding was that any visible smoke coming from the exhaust (diesel vehicles exempted) would result in an immediate failure of the test

 

[MDH33]

Interesting Martin...Maybe I need to re-read the pass/fail requirements because my understanding was that any visible smoke coming from the exhaust (diesel vehicles exempted) would result in an immediate failure of the test

That's true. Mine doesn't show visible smoke when the engine reaches operating temps. I made sure it was warmed up when I took it in.

 

[Beater]

well - it is a 60...

I just passed with my 60 (good numbers too!) and I guarantee you do not want to be behind that thing in the morning as it blows thick, huge clouds of blue smoke for the first 10 minutes, or anytime I'm engine braking. The compression is so bad I have to drive all the passes (and most hills) in second gear. When it was on the dyno, they weren't able to get it to go over 60MPH.