My old Dual Turntable

[rover67]

I found a Dual 1019 on c-list for $100 that I've been really happy with.

would it be worth considering something like that?

This guy sells them refurb'd:

http://www.fixmydual.com/

 

[DaveInDenver]

The difference I believe is solely the power supply.

The regular Carbon uses the same 16V AC supply as my Debut III while the DC generates the motor driving power differently. It's still an AC motor, although only 9V, but is generated from a DC source (which is generated from the 120VAC mains (so yes, it's AC->DC->AC). In any case this will be much more stable. Otherwise they are the same but for $50 more it's hard to say it's not worth it to get the DC, it's clearly the better 'table out of the chute.

But realize that if you're thinking of a base turntable that you might want to upgrade later the non-DC might be a better choice. Pro-Ject offers improved power supplies called the Speed Box that along with being very stable allow you to switch between 33-1/3 and 45 without moving the belt. These are designed around their standard motors, which are 16V AC, so isn't going to be compatible with the DC. If you have a lot of 45s, not needing to lift the platter and move the belt is infinitely better.

BTW, the TT you show in your photo is the Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB. That's the one with the switch for 33/45. It's got a Speed Box built-in. It's not really saving you anything money-wise compared to a Carbon + Speed Box but is more compact than the combination of both and you get the acrylic platter more-or-less thrown in.

 

[DaveInDenver]

This morning I thought, just think of how much music (vinyl, digital, or tickets to live shows) I could buy for that kind of money. It gets crazy.

This statement has been bouncing around in my head all day. It's the critical statement for most everything we do for hobbies. Spend enough to get a decent turntable and dump the rest into records. The analogy to trucks: bounce around in a stock pickup and have tons of money for gas to see places instead of shine an expensive build truck that you can't afford to feed.

To that end, Kirsten got me the 20th anniversary re-release of Hitchhike to Rhome for Christmas. Sounds just fantastic on wax.

 

[Hulk]

I found a Dual 1019 on c-list for $100 that I've been really happy with.

Very cool. My Dad still has an old early 60's Dual similar to this. I pinged him to see if he knows what model he has. He hasn't used it in at least a decade, but I'm sure he has plans now that he's finally retired (at age 75).

http://www.fixmydual.com/

Thanks for the link -- really cool business. It's worth noting that they don't work on my old table, which was an early 80s model. The older ones seem to be more desirable.

It's interesting to debate the pros and cons of seeking out a good vintage turntable (at a decent price) vs. simply dropping a few hundred bucks on a brand new, very good modern turntable with a warranty, all brand new parts, brand new cartridge, brand new needle, etc. I'm one of those people (like many of us here) that has an appreciation for older, very well-built machines. If I had the space and wasn't married to a lady who hates clutter, I could see collecting a bunch of vintage turntables, some tube amps, etc. But I hesitate to get sucked into another expensive hobby. I'm leaning towards simply buying a good new turntable to play my records... but it would certainly be cool to have something vintage and awesome.

 

[DaveInDenver]

There is no single answer. Sometimes keeping old stuff going is fun, sometimes you just need something that works. For me, though, part of the allure of old stuff is working on it myself. Real 4x4s are built, not bought, right?

 

[Blindranger]

Brilliant, I have been rocking an old Dual 1225 for decades, didn't realize people still supported these things. Obligatory pic of my rig in the pre-kid days.


High Fidelity by blindranger, on Flickr

 

[DaveInDenver]

You know, if you're gonna show off the stereo at least hide the Herb Alpert.







Even though I have a thrift store copy of that same record. Just for the music, right?


You know, though, that's one point in favor of LPs. You can actually see the album art and read the liner notes! That's why Gen X is embracing vinyl again. We can't see anymore.

 

[Hulk]

Purchased the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC yesterday. Works great, easy to set up. Listened to a Jeff Tweedy 45 on white vinyl that had never been played.

Dave, did you ever replace the thin felt? It's pretty flimsy.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Congrats, you'll love it.

I still just use the stock felt static mat. You need to be careful if you use something else because the factory set up the arm based on this thickness. I agree that it seems flimsy but it seems to work OK and actually if you look up the price for a replacement it's like a $15 item.

BTW, I do use a Bren1 record weight. I give the platter a bit of a little wrist flick when starting with it.

 

[Hulk]

BTW, I do use a Bren1 record weight. I give the platter a bit of a little wrist flick when starting with it.

Can you hear an audible difference with the Bren1? Pro-Ject offers the Clamp It record clamp which is only 1/3 as heavy as the Bren1.

 

[Crash]

Welcome to the world of audiosis nervosa! Would you be able to hear an inaudible difference?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think it helps, but I also have a lot of crappy records that aren't flat. The question of bearings and weight is what audiophiles sit around and argue, mostly it doesn't matter. The Pro-Ject one would be fine, too.

 

[Rzeppa]

audiophiles sit around and argue, mostly it doesn't matter.

Best band - Led Zeppelin or Kiss?

 

[Hulk]

Best band - Led Zeppelin or Kiss?

Answer: The Replacements.

 

[Rzeppa]

Answer: The Replacements.

Meh. Too contemporary.

 

[Crash]

Hope you are enjoying your new 'table, Hulk. Audio memory can be really sketchy but let us know how you think the Project sounds compared to the old rig. Good choice and I've found the next upgrade for you, once the excitement wears off of your purchase. It's a fairly inexpensive one that reaps great rewards. Reading in one of my audiophool magazines recently, it was mentioned that the $100 Ortophon Red cartridge that came with your 'table (right?) is the same body and internal construction as the cartridges higher up in that line. Replacing the stylus with one for the Ortophon Blue will render sound exactly like the $400 Blue. Cost for the replacement stylus is $99.
Bought any new records yet? Plenty of new and reissue records out there but they aren't cheap, are they?

 

[Hulk]

Hope you are enjoying your new 'table, Hulk. Audio memory can be really sketchy but let us know how you think the Project sounds compared to the old rig. Good choice and I've found the next upgrade for you, once the excitement wears off of your purchase. It's a fairly inexpensive one that reaps great rewards. Reading in one of my audiophool magazines recently, it was mentioned that the $100 Ortophon Red cartridge that came with your 'table (right?) is the same body and internal construction as the cartridges higher up in that line. Replacing the stylus with one for the Ortophon Blue will render sound exactly like the $400 Blue. Cost for the replacement stylus is $99.
Bought any new records yet? Plenty of new and reissue records out there but they aren't cheap, are they?

I haven't bought any new records yet, but whew! they are expensive these days. Back when I was in high school, I could get 3 LPs for $10 when Peaches Records had a sale.

The upgrade idea is interesting, but at the moment I want to get some more playtime in what I have now. Some folks online swear by the acrylic platter, too. It's exciting to me just to have a turntable that works!

I also need to figure out a better home for my turnable. Believe it or not, I found a couple of cabinets that hold 12" records and a turntable at Urban Outfitters. Check these out:

• Draper Media Console
  
• Midcentury Console

If you have any good suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I would spend the $99 on records personally, but my ears don't discern quite as much anymore. I even <gasp> still buy and listen to CDs, mostly used. Second Spin runs deals and you can drop $40 and walk out with half a dozen pretty decent albums. I miss that about Denver, the Friday afternoon stop there on the way home and just browsing. There's jack for used or even new music up here.

Records don't have to be expensive. They're not as cheap as back in high school, but I don't always opt for the 180 gram pressing, either. A lot of bands press 120 gram records still and they usually go for about $10 to $12, so it's not bad. I find that a standard weight record sounds just fine with the record clamp. Nope, sometimes they ain't perfectly flat and the grooves are not as deep. I don't mind. Even run-of-the-mill vinyl sounds good.

The Ikea Kallax shelves are perfectly sized for 12" LPs. These replaced the discontinued the Expedit, which was sort of the go-to shelves for records. They are modular, we use a single column turned on its side as a low under-window cat perch that double as LP storage. Ikea is cool because you can change the look, mix-and-match doors and all that. But I'm preaching to the choir on that.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40275846/

http://riskyfuel.com/2014/12/06/i-bought-a-kallax-shelf-for-my-lps-and-the-world-didnt-end/

My old Peach's crates were, last I checked, still in my dad's basement.

As for a media center, right now I have everything stacks precariously on a low, wide TV console. Rickety and far from ideal. I'm building a nice(ish) looking Flexy rack for my gear, probably using maple shelves and stainless all thread. The look is not for everyone, but the ability to change shelf spacing is handy when you're constantly tinkering.

 

[Hulk]

Dave, thanks for posting these. I will definitely look into the Ikea stuff.

I have a question about hooking up speakers to more than one receiver. Right now, I have my old HK AVR30 receiver located beneath our TV. I have a center channel speaker, 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, and a subwoofer -- and all of these run to the receiver. (see diagram)

My problem is that I don't have a good place to put my turntable with this setup. I do have another good location in the back of the room (see diagram). I know that I can't extend the phono output 20 feet to connect to my receiver. One solution would be to relocate the receiver to put it with the turntable, and then connect the speakers from there.

I could extend the output from the TV through the crawl space all the way over to the receiver, but it wouldn't be ideal for several reasons. For example, the remote control wouldn't work to be able to adjust the volume if I move the receiver to a spot that has no LOS.

I'm thinking I could buy a newer A/V receiver to use with the TV/DVD/Roku/Boxee Box, so I could use my old HK receiver with the turntable. Here's the issue: I'd prefer to use the same speakers for both receivers. But I am guessing that if you hook two amplifiers to one set of speakers, the amplifier putting out a signal will drive that signal back into the other amp, potentially damaging one or both.

I did find this box, the Niles Audio DPS-1, but a) it would probably run only the front speakers (no subwoofer), and b) it's $100, which is spendy.

Any ideas?

 

[Rzeppa]

I'm not Dave, but I am an electronics engineer with 3 decades of experience, and in particular a lot of audio, both home and pro.

(1) Phono preamps are inexpensive and would work fine to extend your phono signal to your receiver. You'd then have line level which would be good for many dozens of feet without any noticeable degradation. If you wanted to go further you could either go balanced low impedance or even digitize but that would be way overkill for this application.

(2) Never EVER connect the outputs of two amplifiers together, BAD JUJU. It would make the magic smoke (tech term). You need to switch them with a dual SPDT with the commons to the speakers and the inputs to your amps.

There was chat in this thread about the cost of vinyl. Back in the 1970s when I used to manage a record store (and yes we also sold 8 tracks and cassettes), a non-sale catalog LP retailed for $6.99. Sales albums were either $4.99 (loss leaders) or $5.99. Our cost on LPs was typically around five-six bucks. This was from distribution, because we seldom bought more than a hundred or so copies of a particular title at a time. I still own over a thousand albums and play them regularly. My turntable sits on top of those peach crates, the mass of all the albums (average 1/2 pound each) helps to keep the stylus from shaking when I turn up my Ted Nugent.