Mobile Radio Selection

[Oh_shift]

In the great debate of radios, I'm trying to pick a mobile unit. Here are the top two contenders:

Icom IC-2730A

• Positive head unit will fit in open spot on dash
• True dual channel monitoring
• Cross band repeater function

Yaesu FTM-100DR

• Smaller head unit so it should still fit in open spot on dash
• APRS

I started looking at the Icom and was just about to pull the trigger until I saw this Yaesu. They both have more features, but I don't know a lot of their benefits, so you're help is appreciated. I have no experience with APRS nor had a desire to pursue it, but for a radio in this price point, why not give it a second look.

Thoughts/opinions/experience on either of them? Been using either and want to upgrade?

 

[Hulk]

I can't comment on the radios, but one thing to consider is whether you can plug the microphone into the detachable display, or if it must be plugged into the radio body. My old Yaesu FT-7800 allows the microphone to be plugged into the display, which is good because the radio body is all the way in the back of my truck. It sounds like you can't do this with the new Yaesu FTM-400XDR, which several guys in the club have purchased. If you're installing the radio body under the seat or in the center console, this won't be an issue.

 

[nakman]

In the club here Yaesu radios outnumber Icom or Kenwood probably 3:1. So if you had a thought that you might need help while on a run, I'd lean towards a Yaesu. Example every time you transmit, your radio makes a beep first... Yaesu guys would tell other Yaesu guys to look for a little atom/infinity symbol button and press that, or push/hold the channel knob, and that toggles that feature, as they have all BTDT. Other radio guys would tell you go rtfm.

 

[Oh_shift]

If you're installing the radio body under the seat or in the center console, this won't be an issue.

That's where it's going so yea, not a priority of where the mic plugs in.

In the club here Yaesu radios outnumber Icom or Kenwood probably 3:1.

Yea, aware of the popularity (or quantities) of Yaesu's in the club. I think it's a fair point that a majority of guys have hands on experience with the brand in some sort of fashion.

 

[wesintl]

Hard to say but i would probably like dual channel vs aprs, or get one that has both

 

[Oh_shift]

With the use of a SD card, am I able to program the Yaesu that way or is it just for storing data and I need to buy a cable for either radio I buy?

 

[DaveInDenver]

With the use of a SD card, am I able to program the Yaesu that way or is it just for storing data and I need to buy a cable for either radio I buy?

You can sort of use the SD card. The actual memory is in the radio just like has been for years. When you use a cable that's what is programmed. You don't need the card in place for it to work.

But you can put memories (as well as all the configuration information) on the SD card and transfer them from/to the radio using the backup feature. You backup the internal memory to the SD card to capture the current configuration, take the card inside and do your modifications, then put it back in the radio and do a backup from it. There's no need for the cable ever in this scenario.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've had several different types of radios. The most flexible are the dual band, dual VFO with built-in APRS. The FTM-400 and TM-D710 are the best ways to do this for our use.

The FTM-100 can do two things at once but when doing APRS it's mostly doing APRS and can monitor a background station for activity. If you're using the voice side a lot the APRS side gets ignored. The FTM-400 in comparison will receive both APRS and your voice station all the time. It switches the transmitter over to APRS when it needs to, which will be when you're not transmitting actively or it will wait until you release the key. The difference is the FTM-100 isn't listening to APRS when you're listening to the voice side. It can only receive one *or* the other.

I ended up ditching the FTM-350 I had (pre-runner to the FTM-400 in many ways) for a separate APRS radio from my voice radio. The main downside is you need to run two antennas but by splitting the two functions each radio can do what it does best. You never miss voice or APRS traffic and neither impacts the other.

Since my voice radio this weekend had issues this solution actually was useful. I never lost APRS function and was able to adapt with an HT for voice.

FWIW, if I was in the market for a new analog-only radio I'd buy a TM-D710 or TM-V71 personally. I'm running a Connect Systems CS800D at the moment, though. I have this for a different reason, it does DMR (digital voice) radio. So this is more of a ham hobbyist thing.

 

[Hulk]

I ended up ditching the FTM-350 I had (pre-runner to the FTM-400 in many ways) for a separate APRS radio from my voice radio. The main downside is you need to run two antennas but by splitting the two functions each radio can do what it does best.

Now I want to see a photo of the inside of your truck with all the screens.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Now I want to see a photo of the inside of your truck with all the screens.

There's only two screens, the voice radio face and the GPS screen. The APRS radio is just a little box under the seats. It doesn't have any external controls, always set to 144.390. Eventually I would like to replace the GPS receiver with a tablet with APRSdroid or whatever and use something else for GPS (Backcountry Navigator I guess).

It's actually less overwhelming than the big LCD of the FTM-350 and the GPS receiver.

Now all the cables running all over are a mess. Three coax runs (2 x ham, 1 x CB), serial to/from the GPS to the APRS, the mic and data cable for the remote radio face, power everywhere. Yeah, that's a real mess.

I'll get it back together and take a photo. I have it torn up trying to figure out what when wrong with my radio. It appears the mic went bad, so I didn't need to tear it all apart after all. But it is, so I'm taking the opportunity to clean things up and punch holes in the roof for antennas.

 

[Hulk]

There's only two screens, the voice radio face and the GPS screen. The APRS radio is just a little box under the seats. It doesn't have any external controls, always set to 144.390.

So can you use APRS on the trail to see the location of other people, or is this strictly transmit only?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Oh, yeah, and I need to figure out a place for the CB radio that I never use. Probably should do the Cobra with the remote mic thing since there's just nowhere for a CB to fit cleanly.

 

[DaveInDenver]

So can you use APRS on the trail to see the location of other people, or is this strictly transmit only?

What I can do right now is transmit my GPS positions and receive others. The ones that are heard become waypoints on my GPS (a Garmin GPSMap 78). They are little icons shown on the screen if they are close or in the list of navigation waypoints otherwise.

The radio itself has a full TNC inside, so when I happen to have a laptop I can connect to it with a serial port (there's two, one for the GPS and a second general purpose) and do anything else, which would be mainly sending and receiving APRS messages.

But the GPS receiver doesn't know anything about APRS so there's nothing in its firmware to deal with it. The TNC is just able to format heard stations into NMEA/Garmin compatible waypoints for it.

 

[Oh_shift]

Dave - now I'm more confused. APRS isn't just plug(in an APRS equipped radio)'N'play?

Got any good material to read on APRS set ups or how to get started?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Man, you have no idea the hornet's nest.

APRS is a huge topic but the simple answer to that is sort of but depends. If you get one of the APRS capable radios you may only have to add GPS (not all APRS radios have it built in, although the current ones do).

If you want a stand alone station you need a radio, TNC (Terminal Node Controller, basically a modem) and some sort of software. You will need a GPS receiver for a mobile station if you want position reporting.

The simplest stand alone is an HT (handheld radio) + Mobilinkd + Android tablet + APRSdroid (software). But there's other combinations of radios and TNCs and a couple of other software packages to do APRS (APRSISCE/32, Xastir, YAAC). But the HT/Mobilinkd/APRSdroid solution is the most common within 4x4 circles.

Probably should start a thread about it. There may be one already, have to check. It could get very detailed and you may not want to clog up your thread beyond what I have already.

 

[AimCOTaco]

Alex,
Are you coming to the rally? I could show you a thing or two but would be a long post to try and explain what I think I know.

APRS is sold as plug and play by the manufactures but for the system to continue to function and to be used successfully I think it's important that users understand the underlying technologies and methods, this is ham mode afterall so geek out starting at aprs.org

Bottom line is that APRS really needs it's own full time receiver to function well and while the FTM-400 works that way I think the -100 just tries to 'fit it in' so to speak between voice transactions. APRS signals are transient and if your set is not listening it will miss packets... not like e-mail where it just sits on the server until you are ready.

 

[Oh_shift]

Man, you have no idea the hornet's nest.

WOW! That got technical QUICK!! I have some research to do...

Alex,
Are you coming to the rally? I could show you a thing or two but would be a long post to try and explain what I think I know.

I'll be there and will come look your rig/setup over.

 

[DaveInDenver]

WOW! That got technical QUICK!! I have some research to do...

I believe there's a theory that relates the number of acronyms or abbreviations to the technical (or perceived technological) content of a statement. Whatcha think, that one probably ranks in a freshman engineering level?

 

[chaos]

I have a FTM-100. I am totally new to Ham Radio and thought I would like the APRS functionality so that my wife could track me on APRS.FI . I thought I was being a responsible husband that she could reach me if necessary. To date, I don't think she has ever tracked me. I thought I would like the idea of being able to send messages like "I'm good, at camp, no cell" and that did help on the trail. I got a "thanks for letting me know" message from my wife. So, tracking is interesting, but not the end all. The FTM does dual-watch. You create a "home" station, which for me was APRS and then you tune to what you want to monitor. At Cruise Moab this year, I was able to have my APRS on and hear the folks on Kokopelli.

So, if I had to do it again, I would do the FTM-400 because the screen size, the ability to have two channels monitored as people here have pointed out. There is an interesting function for "group" monitoring for all those that have Yaesu products but I haven't tried that.

APRS is fun... I'm sure I haven't used it at all to its potential.... so perfect Ham for me was the FTM-100. The 400 seems to be much more capable. I only listen to ham and repeaters in town. I don't rag chew with any one.

 

[mcgaskins]

I have a FTM-100. I am totally new to Ham Radio and thought I would like the APRS functionality so that my wife could track me on APRS.FI . I thought I was being a responsible husband that she could reach me if necessary. To date, I don't think she has ever tracked me. I thought I would like the idea of being able to send messages like "I'm good, at camp, no cell" and that did help on the trail. I got a "thanks for letting me know" message from my wife. So, tracking is interesting, but not the end all. The FTM does dual-watch. You create a "home" station, which for me was APRS and then you tune to what you want to monitor. At Cruise Moab this year, I was able to have my APRS on and hear the folks on Kokopelli.

To say I'm a ham newb is a gross understatement, but what you described makes me think of what my Garmin Inreach Explorer + does very well. I turn it on when I'm heading out, and when I share my location to my wife, friends, etc. and turn on tracking, it shows my location updated every 10 mins (you can change and modify the interval to shorter or longer) with detailed coordinates and a map sent via email or text. I leave it on the entire time I'm gone so any of them can see where I am. Of course that device is a GPS / satellite communicator that uses the Iridium sat phone infrastructure and requires a data plan, but it works for the above plus sending text messages via satellite and SOS calls and a lot more.

I currently have a handheld FT60R that works very well, so I'm not sure if I have a need for a hard mounted super fancy setup, even though it seems like it would be cool/fun. I think I'd continue to use the Garmin for the things you mention APRS would be good for and probably wouldn't the high tech features of a FT400M enough to justify the expense.