I've got the HF bug - starter unit?

[CardinalFJ60]

I'm looking to get my general but in a weird twist, I'd like to get a radio first to listen and get acquainted with the operation while I'm studying. what's a good starter radio? or should I save up and get what i'm looking at... the Yaesu ft-991 which is all band including 2m/70cm? I've also been eying the Yaesu 450 as an alternative and it's about half the price.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you're just wanting to stick a toe in the water don't overlook the Alinco DX-SR8T and Icom IC-718, both solid competition to the FT-450.

The FT-991 is by all accounts a good radio. I have an FT-857 as my only HF radio at the moment and honestly having 2m/70cm isn't a significant benefit unless you're mounting it mobile to save space or want all mode VHF and UHF.

So unless you plan to do SSB for example on 2m you're better off just budgeting for and running an HF radio for HF use and have an FM mobile radio separately for 2/70. The problem with an all band, all mode radio is it can only do one thing at a time so you can't work HF and a repeater at the same time.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

Thanks Dave! this is great insight! the 857 is such a cool radio - is it difficult to 'manage' with the limited buttons and such? I could see 9(if I get more into HF) to get that for the 60 or use as a fun camp radio to set up.

I'll look at those other units - since I'm a "yaesu guy" are the controls easier to understand if I already Yaesu? I find it easy to go from my 8900 to my 8800 or my 2900 and my HTs

 

[DaveInDenver]

The FT-857 isn't the best radio from an operator interface. It's not bad as a mobile or portable radio but it's definitely a compromise. I fully intend someday to get a decent base HF radio with a screen I can see and bigger buttons when money is there for it.

As far as brand, it's really a personal preference. Go over to HRO and spin dials. You might find the FT-991 is fine, you might like something else in person. I'm not exclusive brand-wise. I've had Yaesu, Kenwood, Vertex, Motorola, Icom, Alinco and Connect Systems. There's benefits to staying within a system, programming cables, interfaces, etc. But get the right tool for the job. I generally recommend to people the TM-V71 over the Yaesu options, it's IMO the best candidate analog dual band, dual VFO mobile radio at the moment.

With HF radios you start to build even more stuff with respect to antennas such as tuners. I have an Icom AH-4 tuner (which is awesome) I used with an IC-7000 (which I should not have sold) with a hacked box that works with some Yaesu radios, but it's dodgy and so that makes a real Icom HF radio more attractive.

In this case Yaesu's tuner, the FC-40, isn't one the better options and that makes Yaesu radios to me less attractive. It's got a limited impedance range and requires a 7-conductor cable with a DIN plug. Just not the most robust or simple to deal with.

I have an ATAS-120 that works well for a screwdriver. It requires just the coax and handles communication over that. I don't care much for screwdriver antennas generally and that it is seamless functionally makes it to me OK. I wouldn't bother otherwise if interfacing wasn't so clean.

 

[rover67]

Are you planning to do mobile HF I assume?? That seems neat.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

maybe someday. I recall being in MT with Boland on an Outlaws run and he set up his 857 at camp and we connected with folks in the British Virgin Islands, Vancouver, BC and some guy in FL. I thought that was wicked cool.

 

[Mendocino]

I have an 857-D as my base station HF rig and as @DaveInDenver mentioned, the UX is not ideal. I would much prefer a FT-991A. In any case, HF is super fun!

 

[bh4rnnr]

I'm looking to get my general but in a weird twist, I'd like to get a radio first to listen and get acquainted with the operation while I'm studying. what's a good starter radio? or should I save up and get what i'm looking at... the Yaesu ft-991 which is all band including 2m/70cm? I've also been eying the Yaesu 450 as an alternative and it's about half the price.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Got around to stringing some copper in the aether. Still haven't really gotten a proper operating position set up but have been digging on this Icom IC-7300. Love the size, just right.

I'm running an Icom AH-4 tuner on the roof with an off-center 66' dipole (essentially an Windom or Fritzel FD3 OCF) with a few feet of 450Ω window line from the feed point (a block cut from a white nylon cutting board) to the tuner.

https://pa0fri.home.xs4all.nl/Ant/FD4/fd4eng.htm

 

[DaveInDenver]

This is a pretty good deal on an outstanding HF radio, Shawn (@CardinalFJ60).

Yaesu FTdx-3000, he's asking $1,100 but it's been listed a month already. Happy to facilitate. This radio is list at $2,600 and even with all the discounts and rebates still goes for $1,700 now.

https://westslope.craigslist.org/ele/d/grand-junction-yaesu-ftdx3000d-ham-radio/7089695724.html

There's also a couple of Icom IC-706 radios on the Denver CL. That's a bit long in the tooth but similar architecture and performance to an FT-857 (which is now officially discontinued). The 706mkII is the one to get and he's asking $750, which strikes me as a little steep when you can get a brand new FT-891 for $600 right now. You give up 2m and 70cm but gain IF DSP. I'd give maybe $500 for a nice 706, maybe.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

great info!! thanks for the heads up. I'm gonna do some diggin' at yaesu.com for the specs on that unit.

 

[DaveInDenver]

FWIW, the ACØVH base QTH as it currently stands - very low buck utilitarian, form certainly following function.

 

[DouglasVB]

I've got a couple 10M radios that were my grandfather's (silent key) long distance workhorses for several decades. One of these days I really need to fire them up. They both have several of the desirable mods that you could do to these radios back in the day (I have all of his documentation of what he did to the radios but haven't looked at it in years). For whatever reason, he never really operated on anything other than 10M.

Fun fact: he learned radios in the Army in WWII and that, combined with him being a good typist and a trombone player, caused him to be a radio operator trainer throughout his service -- he never got sent outside the USA because he was a nerd!



I recall watching him talk with his friends in Australia, Europe, and Africa using these radios. He did a whole lot of morse code and was incredibly fast at it, did RTTY or something similar first on a KayPro and then on an IBM machine, and I recall him doing something like SSTV as well. He only occasionally operated in various voice modes.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Those radios (Kenwood TS-430 top and Kenwood TS-440 bottom) are all band radios, not just 10m. They'll cover 160m up to 10m including the WARC bands (30m, 17m, 12m). They don't do 6m like more modern HF radios cover now. But 6m isn't technically HF anyway. Your grandfather had a couple of nice radios.

 

[DouglasVB]

Those radios (Kenwood TS-430 top and Kenwood TS-440 bottom) are all band radios, not just 10m. They'll cover 160m up to 10m including the WARC bands (30m, 17m, 12m). They don't do 6m like more modern HF radios cover now. But 6m isn't technically HF anyway. Your grandfather had a couple of nice radios.

Huh interesting! I only ever heard him talking about the 10m band but he probably was doing stuff on the other bands as well. He spent every early morning on his radios after he retired. Somewhere around here I still have one of his contact postcards he would mail people after a successful contact. Do people still do that anymore?

While I have been operating for many years, I only operate in 2M locally. Everything else I read about at some point but haven't tried.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The postcards are called QSL cards and some people still do. I keep a stack of physical cards and send them most of the time. Although most contacts are logged electronically using ARRL's Logbook of the World or similar methods. I like having the cards to hang on the wall, though.

It's unlikely he only operated 10m. The high bands aren't reliable and 10m especially is an extremely difficult opening from North America to Africa, Australia or Europe. Not something you can rely on. If he was operating mornings he could have been working the grey line. This is a period of transition from night to day and vice versa where the E- and F-layers of the ionosphere are energized but the closer-to-Earth D-layer has not yet been much.

This is important because the D-layer tends to absorb energy so it while the solar-charged electrons are what you need for RF to propagate you want them in the E- and F-layers for distance (DX). So for about half an hour during twilight (e.g. the "grey" line from light to dark as the Earth spins) you can work long distances on 15m up 10m, especially from North America to Southern Hemispheres.

 

[DouglasVB]

I'll have to ask my uncle for more details of what my grandpa all used to do. My uncle is very active in the amateur radio community and used to do a lot of stuff with very low power transmissions. I have a few old magazines around here somewhere with articles he wrote back in the day about his low power long distance radios.

 

[DaveInDenver]

A QRP (low power, generally under 5W) operator would be very familiar with the grey line. It's something that one would definitely want to take advantage of to make DX contacts.

 

[DaveInDenver]

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/ele/d/colorado-springs-icom-718-radios-ham/7104522246.html

Some Icom IC-718 radios down in the Springs, sounds like he's got several. Some new, some used. A nice condition used one for $450 or so is a good deal. Unless he's an authorized dealer (e.g. so Icom will honor a warranty) I wouldn't pay $640 for a new one. HRO gets $585 for one brand new with all the rebates currently. But that's before tax so it'll be close to $640 I think once you're all said and done.

 

[DaveInDenver]

https://denver.craigslist.org/ele/d/englewood-yaesu-ft-857d/7130408404.html

FT-857D and ATAS-120 for sale over in Denver.