Hulk Home Solar 2022

[Hulk]

I'm thinking about doing solar this year. I already have one quote, which I will post below. First, here is my usage with Xcel Energy. I took this straight from my bills:

Statement Date	Total kWh	Electric Service $
3/20/20​	1185​	$ 125.14
4/21/20​	1535​	$ 160.55
5/19/20​	1278​	$ 134.58
6/19/20​	1575​	$ 195.23
7/21/20​	1398​	$ 186.83
8/18/20​	1929​	$ 263.24
9/18/20​	1752​	$ 238.46
10/19/20​	1370​	$ 162.71
11/17/20​	1430​	$ 156.44
12/18/20​	1716​	$ 186.59
1/22/21​	1667​	$ 182.64
2/22/21​	1531​	$ 168.84
3/24/21​	1378​	$ 153.12
4/21/21​	1056​	$ 119.61
5/21/21​	1119​	$ 126.71
6/22/21​	1307​	$ 171.23
7/21/21​	1513​	$ 217.96
8/20/21​	1716​	$ 253.64
9/21/21​	1120​	$ 155.89
10/20/21​	1042​	$ 137.71
11/18/21​	1045​	$ 135.18
12/20/21​	1205​	$ 154.91
1/21/22​	1515​	$ 194.30
Avg last 12 months	1296​	$ 165.76
Total last 12 months	15,547​	$ 1,989.10

 

[Hulk]

The company I've received my first quote from is Apollo. Here is the system they proposed. They've designed it to cover 105% of our annual electric usage (which shows as 124% "solar offset" because the system makes lots of power from 3-7pm when Xcel is going to be charging the most $/kW in the future. Marketing at its best). This is 35 panels with 6 of them on a north facing slope.

 

[Hulk]

Apollo is quoting $50K for the whole thing, which comes to $37K after the 26% tax credit. They offer 20-year financing at 1.49% which puts my monthly cost at $182/mo. assuming I pay down the loan with the tax credit in 2023. My average monthly electric cost is about $166, so if these numbers are valid, the difference is $18 plus whatever I will pay to Xcel to stay connected to the grid (less than $10/mo. currently).

Let's say solar costs me +$26/mo. compared to what I paid over the last 12 months. How long will it be before my electric bill has gone up that much or more? That seems to be the whole advantage: lock in a fixed rate now, it will stay mostly the same in the future while electricity from the grid continues to go up.

Some of this strikes me as voodoo math, but it does sound significantly better than a quote I received 3-4 years ago.

I'll probably pay off the whole thing at some point, but with two kids in college starting this August, I'll start with a loan.

 

[Hulk]

Who else should I talk with? If you have a vendor that you would recommend, send their information.

 

[Romer]

Namaste is who I went with. Here is how I got there
I got three estimates for the Solar. It’s a 10kW system with 27 panels. You can design for up to 120% of your current use. This was 112% of my current use to meet

• SUNRUN - $32K
• ARE Solar - $29.2K
• Namaste- $30.9K

These were cash based. I may have the finance numbers but saw that the savings going cash was about $3K. You can play that against a finance option vs a Home equity loan if you want to go that route

I am an Electrical Engineer, so I researched the products they were going to use

ARE and Namaste were using the two best panels out there. There are debates which one is better, but they are equivalent in my view. SunRun was using a much lower grade panel at a higher cost.

SUNRUNs Customer service was also poor as the person I was talking to didn’t know much about the product when I asked some detailed questions. They also subcontract out some of their installs. So that concerned me as the installers would not be as vested

My daughter Sarah had Namaste and had great success. Reviews showed them to be the best in the state for quality and customer satisfaction. All employees are shared owners and they don’t subcontract out. One of the reasons it takes longer for them to be able to install

With that I was about to sign on the dotted line with ARE because they were $1500 less. I like the option of having batteries when the power goes out and wanted to be able to last a couple of days in a snow storm on batteries if I had to, so I was discussing 32kW of batteries. That is really expensive and doesn’t provide the payback. It added about $33K to my system no matter who did it. One battery would get you for half a day if you want a lower cost battery

On battery power most things are disabled to conserve power. I wanted something different with everything on battery except the AC, Dryer and Oven. That with two batteries required two inverters instead of one to handle the load

I admit I was wanting something more custom

When I started going over it with ARE we had a disagreement on how Current works relative to voltage. The owner and their lead tech showed lower capability then I did and they wanted to reduce the loads on battery as a result.

Now normally I would trust the expert, but I design and build spacecraft at Lockheed and Solar/Battery power is part of that

So I called Namaste and posed the same question to them without the answer. They came back with the same answer I had calculated

So I let ARE know I wasn’t going with them and signed with Namaste. Their Battery price was about the same as ARE

Lots of info, but I wanted you to know why I chose Namaste; Customer service, do own installs and much better technically for my customization. They know what they are doing

They installed the system in December and we had to wait a month for Xcel to change the meter

Since Jan 22nd when it was turned on (after Xcel) on no snow days we generate more power than we need providing credits to offset future days (like snow days). My batteries power the whole house over night so the only time I actually use the grid is when the panels are covered with snow

I had one issue with a component after install and they quickly came out and replaced it. There is a web page and a phone app where you and they can monitor thee system and how the components are performing. This showed me one panel wasn’t working very well and they quickly diagnosed it was the optimizer which connects the panel to the system and replaced it quickly

This is who I dealt with at Namaste
Anna.perry@namastesolar.com
Direct line: 720-305-4461
Main Line: 303-447-0300

 

[2fpower]

Wow solar got expensive. I am a CPA, so I have to look at the numbers.... and they don't make sense.

$50k... ouch. assuming 90% reduction in electric bill, and assuming 20% rate increase over next 10 years, that is still over 20 year to get your money back.... although one will argue that it increases value of home. I agree, however, my question is in 20 years, when this is finally cash flow neutral, will this be a dinosour of solar technology and be little value??

My point is I don't get it... why do solar with this long of paybacks?

 

[RayRay27]

If you have a Costco membership you can get a decent deal through them. I did Sunrun through Costco which saved me a little cash.

 

[Romer]

Wow solar got expensive. I am a CPA, so I have to look at the numbers.... and they don't make sense.

$50k... ouch. assuming 90% reduction in electric bill, and assuming 20% rate increase over next 10 years, that is still over 20 year to get your money back.... although one will argue that it increases value of home. I agree, however, my question is in 20 years, when this is finally cash flow neutral, will this be a dinosour of solar technology and be little value??

My point is I don't get it... why do solar with this long of paybacks?

you need to assume 100% reduction in Electric bill. The Net credits when you produce more than you use offset when you have to use the grid when covered in Snow. Except when covered with snow, I create more power than I use in a 24 hr period and it is only February. I assume Dec/Jan there will be days that are the opposite, but the Net Credits throughout the year will more than offset that. Based on what I see so far, I think I can add an EV charging in thee future without needing the grid

The $50K does seem high. To get the extra capability is just adding panels as that is the same inverter included in the three costs I posted above. The solar system for my house is about $30K (no batteries) less 26% so about $22K after the tax rebate which at current rates is about a 14 year payback. I threw the payback out the window when I went to batteries. It was more about capability then

I had debated solar for several years and didn't bite because the payoff over 10-20 years didn't really drive me there. The power outages, hackers etc drove me to get Solar with Batteries so I could be independent from the grid if I needed to

 

[gungriffin]

You might reach out to this company below and just see what a semi DIY approach will cost. I am floored at how much margin these installers charge. Once I am settled into my new house I will be installing solar myself and probably going with this company or possibly one other. My house is about the easiest it is possible to have for install though. I have a south facing slope to my rood at almost the perfect angle. I should be able to get at least 6-7kw of solar on it. If you go with a 48v inverter, you can get a relatively inexpensive battery system to pair with it. I costed out my system and a rough estimate of parts is ~$24,000 with 30.72 kWh of battery storage and about 7kw of panels. This also does not include the 26% tax credit that the entirety of the $24k charge will be eligible for. This system should be good to grid connect, but I will not be able to sell back electric at this price. I don't care though as I will be converting everything over to electric eventually and so I won't have any need for the credits that offer no real cash value.

DIY Kits - Solar Wholesale

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www.solarwholesale.com

Relatively cheap 48v batteries:

48V 100AH EG4LL LCD Battery by EG4

ADD-ON CHARGER DEAL Get the EG4 LiFePo4 Battery Charger for 33% off in cart DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING 48V 100AH-LL Battery by EG4Signature Solar’s premier lithium battery, GYLL, has been rebranded to EG4. This version is complete with an LCD readout on the face of the battery...

www.signaturesolar.us

 

[satchel]

I used photon brothers and have nothing but good things to say about them.

 

[Jacket]

Wow solar got expensive. I am a CPA, so I have to look at the numbers.... and they don't make sense.

$50k... ouch. assuming 90% reduction in electric bill, and assuming 20% rate increase over next 10 years, that is still over 20 year to get your money back.... although one will argue that it increases value of home. I agree, however, my question is in 20 years, when this is finally cash flow neutral, will this be a dinosour of solar technology and be little value??

My point is I don't get it... why do solar with this long of paybacks?

My thought as well. Maybe with a Tesla and a Leaf in the garage, and a propensity to do a lot of welding, this is more justified. Prices now are nuts. I took a long look at 15k and decided no. 50k - ouch.

 

[ScaldedDog]

Prices now are nuts. I took a long look at 15k and decided no. 50k - ouch.

The government subsidy is a huge part of that, as is obvious from the vendor sales pitches. The pitch is that the customer is getting all of that but, of course, that's not true. Get rid of the subsidy and let the technology stand on its own.

I like the idea of a solar array and battery system, but can't get past the fact they are butt ugly, and ruin the curb appeal of a home. Even on five acres, I don't think I can find a place to hide the thing. Clearly my opinion may not be shared by all, but I am interested if it was a consideration for those who have systems, and how you addressed it.

Mark

 

[ScaldedDog]

Moderately interesting thread on this topic on the garagejournal.com:

solar

My electric bill last year was $1,422.19. We used 9026 kWh during the year = .157 per kWh using the average. Low month was 453 kWh and high month in summer was 1332 kWh. The area that faces southwest on the roof is about 15' x 25' or 375 sq ft. I figure that anything that I put on the house...

www.garagejournal.com

Mark

 

[nakman]

Matt we did Project Solar. $9k for 5.4kW... your quote should be about 2.5x that? And that's before any tax credits. My ROI should land in the 7-8 year range best guess. We also refinanced and pulled some money out to fund it, rather than opt for the fixed bill for 20 years program.

 

[RayRay27]

@Hulk if you live in a HOA community you may want to check with them to if you haven't already because they may have stipulations that require you to install certain types of systems or certain companies?

 

[Hulk]

Matt we did Project Solar. $9k for 5.4kW... your quote should be about 2.5x that? And that's before any tax credits. My ROI should land in the 7-8 year range best guess. We also refinanced and pulled some money out to fund it, rather than opt for the fixed bill for 20 years program.

Their automated calculator just quoted me
$21,944 (before tax credits) for a 10.55 kW system
$26,375 (before tax credits) for a 10.19 kW system
...so this is clearly a better deal than Apollo quoted me. I can pay them $100 upfront to get started. Did you customize the system a lot with them? Who actually did the install? Did you do any of the installation yourself?

 

[nakman]

Did you customize the system a lot with them? I went back and forth a few times trying to buy more panels... trying to push Xcel to approve as much as possible. We landed on a system that was quoted to produce 8,033 kWh per year. So far this year I have made 789.2 kWh, through almost 2 months. But the better months are still coming. If you quote with them, we can both get a $100 gift card use this link https://estimator.enphase.com/lead?referral_code=3718AR3F2

Who actually did the install? The subbed it out to Beutifi Solar https://beautifisolar.com/ I don't know if they use them for every install or not. But I paid Project Solar for the install, not them directly.. which was good as there was a solid 2 month delay between the install and me actually paying, as that was contingent on receiving permission to operate from Xcel.

Did you do any of the installation yourself? Nada. The most I did was take the pictures they needed for the quote, and clean some stuff up around the breaker box in the garage to give them access.

My whole experience has been pretty well documented in the other solar thread. I still kinda wish I would have got the micro inverters that Marco has, Enphase iQ7+, vs the Enphase IQ7 that they paired with the panels, but part of that is my own brain density not understanding electicity perhaps.. don't let that ruin your otherwise perfecly positive solar thread, you can read all about it in the other one. Bottom line is they probably know better than I do about how to do this, and so long as I get to 8,000 kWh annually I promise to be happy.

 

[patrickhrco]

With 37 panels we still owe xcel each month for electricity. Some months its over 150$. We dont have an electric vehicle (yet) but we are home a lot. We homeschool and work from home. But still, I think xcel is stealing from us. One month I called them out on it and they said they don’t read my meter, they estimate based on past usage. Nothing I can really do but pay them. I like solar but some months am pretty discouraged by the ongoing charges from xcel.

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

How does all of this work with your home insurance? With hail being such a common occurrence, does your home insurance go up when you install panels on the roof due to the extra cost that will be associated if you have to replace your roof? I realize the panels themselves will take the brunt of the impacts, but I'm sure in a severe enough case that destroys panels, there's enough roof still exposed that repairs could still be needed.

I really want to do solar to mitigate the risk of energy costs being significantly higher when I retire. I realize the technology will be obsolete by that time but I'm guessing the infrastructure changes put in place will still be usable? This is the cheapest state I've ever live in with regards to electric bills. Even in the hottest parts of the summer when I run the A/C almost non-stop, I rarely go over $200/month. BUT, maybe investing in solar now will help me out 25 years from now? So much head hurt!

 

[AlpineAccess]

How does all of this work with your home insurance? With hail being such a common occurrence, does your home insurance go up when you install panels on the roof due to the extra cost that will be associated if you have to replace your roof? I realize the panels themselves will take the brunt of the impacts, but I'm sure in a severe enough case that destroys panels, there's enough roof still exposed that repairs could still be needed.

I really want to do solar to mitigate the risk of energy costs being significantly higher when I retire. I realize the technology will be obsolete by that time but I'm guessing the infrastructure changes put in place will still be usable? This is the cheapest state I've ever live in with regards to electric bills. Even in the hottest parts of the summer when I run the A/C almost non-stop, I rarely go over $200/month. BUT, maybe investing in solar now will help me out 25 years from now? So much head hurt!

Hey Nic, interestingly I just spoke with my neighbor about this who has a pretty good size system on their roof. He said solar was covered under their current insurance (didn't require anything separately) but that they did make sure to adjust their coverage limits using the total system value (I think around 25-30k probably based on what I'm seeing in this thread). So I'm sure his policy costs a little bit more monthly, but probably not a big factor in whether to do solar or not? Curious if that goes for the other guys in here as I've been looking at solar as well - we have great southern exposure on the roof of our ranch that even in heavy snow is rarely covered for more than a couple of days.