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help with brake problems
- Thread starter black95
- Start date
black95
0
I looked at an FJ60 braking system yesterday and now I know what everyone was talking about with the combination valve under the master cylinder. I see now that this is my next route. Although, the 60 I looked at only had one line running down to the axle, so that is not going to work with my setup, I guess I could put a tee under it, but I would rather go aftermarket, since all of those valves I can get my hands on are 30 years old. Thanks for all the input, I think (hope) this will resolve my woes. Off to spend more money! 
I'll let you know how it turned out.
I'll let you know how it turned out.
black95
0
Even though I said I wouldn't do it, I sourced a brake combination valve from an FJ60. Have a friend in the CLC club that happens to have an old parts 60 behind his house, so I picked up the combo valve for the bargain price of a little beer. I decided on this because his FJ60 runs an FJ80 master cylinder with all stock lines and components, including a single line to the rear, with Stock 60 brakes up front, and GM calipers on the rear 14 bolt with a 2 pound residual valve. This setup is Exactly like mine, short of the drums in the rear. His brakes work great, you may have seen him on this year's Peterson's Ultimate Adventure video.
Unfortunately, I just got back from a test run on the very icy Rampart Range road, and the newly installed combo valve did absolutely nothing for my brakes. Not one ounce of braking from my rear end.
I'm gonna set this damn thing on fire.
I've had it... I quit... I'm done.... does anyone know an expert at this kind of thing? anyplace I can take this rig and NOT pick it up until the damn rear brakes work? I'm not talking about a guy you think might know a guy who may know a way... I'm talking about an EXPERT. Anyone, please?
Unfortunately, I just got back from a test run on the very icy Rampart Range road, and the newly installed combo valve did absolutely nothing for my brakes. Not one ounce of braking from my rear end.
I'm gonna set this damn thing on fire.
I've had it... I quit... I'm done.... does anyone know an expert at this kind of thing? anyplace I can take this rig and NOT pick it up until the damn rear brakes work? I'm not talking about a guy you think might know a guy who may know a way... I'm talking about an EXPERT. Anyone, please?
black95
0
rover67
Rising Sun Member
Yours has a residual valve? I didn't think I read that it does.
I am not sure who to point you to unfortunately, I am sure folks here know.
I am not sure who to point you to unfortunately, I am sure folks here know.
black95
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Lol. Wasn't referring to the mud community, I've just had too many people tell me to take it to brakes plus... yeah, right. I didn't know you were sase certified, wanna fix this for me?
Lol. Wasn't referring to the mud community, I've just had too many people tell me to take it to brakes plus... yeah, right. I didn't know you were sase certified, wanna fix this for me?
Hmmmm....looks like auto correct on my phone hacked up my post pretty good.
ASC would have been the correct acronym thank you! 
Have you tried a very simple test of swapping the MC output lines port to port? Marco has a good reference to residual valves. A residual valve is in place on drum brake systems to help keep the peddle stroke shorter by maintaining a residual pressure (2-3psi) in the line to prevent the return springs from completely compressing the wheel cylinder each time the brakes are released. If your M/C is from a disk/disk setup it most likely does not have residual valves. If you can swap ports and nothing changes I think Marco gets the trophy!
black95
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Hmmm.... Interesting. I always thought residual valves were only for disks. I am running a disk/disk FJ80 master cylinder. That may very well make a difference. Seems like pumping the pedal would eventually make the brakes come on, I will have to try that.
Last night, I was running about 15 MPH and put both feet and my 275 punds of weight as hard as I could on that dang pedal, and nothing to the rear, pretty scary because that front end does nothing to stop this truck.
Keep the ideas coming! I love you guys man!
Last night, I was running about 15 MPH and put both feet and my 275 punds of weight as hard as I could on that dang pedal, and nothing to the rear, pretty scary because that front end does nothing to stop this truck.
Keep the ideas coming! I love you guys man!
rover67
Rising Sun Member
The residual valves are for drums and some disks, but mainly drums. On slick surfaces can you pump the brakes and make it do anything to the rears if you pump fast enough? Even if not I'd still try a residual valve. they are cheap and at this point at least worth a shot I think. I think I put in a link to some in an earlier post. Most folks that run the disk/disk masters use them.
black95
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I think this is the answer. Marco, if you just fixed this, I'm gonna find you and give you a bear hug. 
I am finding 2Lb's and 10Lb's. What's the standard? 2LB?
I am finding 2Lb's and 10Lb's. What's the standard? 2LB?
black95
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Jeg's website says 2LB's for disks, 10LB's for drums.
Should I put a 2 LB'er on the front while I'm at it? Maybe that will make my brakes rock solid! I have always thought I had to push that pedal a little too far down to stop. Or does the 80 master already have a 2LB residual built in?
EDIT: just read that you only need them for calipers if the master is below the calipers... How the heck would that be possible???
I'm so excited I think I'm gonna pee myself...
Should I put a 2 LB'er on the front while I'm at it? Maybe that will make my brakes rock solid! I have always thought I had to push that pedal a little too far down to stop. Or does the 80 master already have a 2LB residual built in?
EDIT: just read that you only need them for calipers if the master is below the calipers... How the heck would that be possible???
I'm so excited I think I'm gonna pee myself...
SteveH
Hard Core 4+
Some hot rods (1940s and earlier US-made stuff, in this case) have master cylinders near the floor that are operated on directly by the brake pedal. Some are below the floorboards. This is the only case I know of where the MC would be below the calipers.
rover67
Rising Sun Member
I wouldn't get too excited yet, it is kind of a long shot but maybe it will work. Seems like you've certainly checked everything else. Just get a 10lb one for the rear circuit.
Master can be lower than calipers if the application is a low race car with floorboard mounted master cylinder as well as older cars as mentioned above.
Master can be lower than calipers if the application is a low race car with floorboard mounted master cylinder as well as older cars as mentioned above.
black95
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10LB Wilwood residual vavle... problem solved! 
Awesome rear brakes now! Been driving around in the snow dialing them in, leased as punch about being able to stop without the front end locking up and diving into the ditch. 
Took out the FJ60 combo valve and put my proportioner back in, with residual.
That's just awesome, you guys rock. I've run this through everyone, including the main 'Mud forums, and nobody, I mean nobody had any ideas.
Awesome rear brakes now! Been driving around in the snow dialing them in, leased as punch about being able to stop without the front end locking up and diving into the ditch. Took out the FJ60 combo valve and put my proportioner back in, with residual. That's just awesome, you guys rock. I've run this through everyone, including the main 'Mud forums, and nobody, I mean nobody had any ideas.
black95
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Well, 4runner's up to it's old tricks again. I ended up taking the proportioning valve out completely. now I have a line straight to the rear with a 10lb residual valve in it, and the rears work o.k. but you are way past front brake lock up before they start working. I wanted to run Black Bear this summer, that's why all the brake fixing. Don't want to run Black Bear with iffy brakes.
The 4runner's rear system is supposed to re-adjust when you use the e-brake, I think it works because they always seem to come in at the same place. I know %100 the rear system is put together correctly. Anyone know if you can run a 2lb residual in front/ inline with a 10lb? I've rear they make a 12lb, but damned if I can find one anywhere. Do I just have to be stuck adjusting my brakes manually every month? Never had this problem in any of my other vehicles.
The 4runner's rear system is supposed to re-adjust when you use the e-brake, I think it works because they always seem to come in at the same place. I know %100 the rear system is put together correctly. Anyone know if you can run a 2lb residual in front/ inline with a 10lb? I've rear they make a 12lb, but damned if I can find one anywhere. Do I just have to be stuck adjusting my brakes manually every month? Never had this problem in any of my other vehicles.
rover67
Rising Sun Member
a 10lb and a 2 lb inline in any order will just give you 10 psi residual pressure at the brakes.
are you sure the adjusting mechanism is working well?
are you sure the adjusting mechanism is working well?
black95
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yeah, I even had the drum off and watched it work. I'm starting to think I might just need to replace my drums. As far as I know, they've never been changed and I think the wheel cylinder may be having to travel too far to make up for lost drum surface. Yanked on the E-brake hard a few times today and they tightened up a bit, enough that they're working again. I figured same thing on stacking residuals.
ttubb
0
You do not have a residual valve on the front disk brakes, correct? IIRC they should not have a residual valve, only the rear drums.