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GX470 dual battery install

nakman

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Chris, as far as I know Matt @ offgridengineering is the only one who makes a plug & play harness for that switch, he's where I bought mine. It's likely the nicest looking loom in the whole truck.

And yes as you found I've run solar under the rack on a couple different vehicles now... it's probably not something I'd do again. My preferred setup these days is a panel on top of the rack, removable so that it can be positioned away from the truck if desired. Few bullet point reasons...

- the wattage loss from a bar running over the panel is significant. I used to scoff at that, until I actually measured it... then I learned a 100 watt panel will measure about 85 watts under ideal conditions. But wave your hand in front of it and it drops to around 60, stand in front of it and it drops even lower. So under a rack I'd say you top out at 60% of what your panel is rated to.

- panel angle to the sun is also a factor, and when I say ideal conditions it's really three parts; unobstructed, direct angle, and clean. So when you bolt a panel under the rack you're 0 for 3 on that... and after a year it's really crazy how much dirt collects on the panel, especially under the bars.

- most people want solar when out adventuring to help power their refrigerator. That makes a ton of sense, but consider that those are almost opposites from an environmental perspective. Solar panels like hot, direct sunlight, while fridges are more like dogs they'd prefer the shade with the window cracked. So if you hard mount your panel you can park in the shade and glean a tiny bit of solar benefit, but keep the fridge cool. Or you can park in the direct sun and get more solar, then make your fridge work harder... I'm not sure the power you would gain by parking in the direct sun is even enough to offset the additional power you're consuming by having a hot car. Next to impossible to measure that as there are so many other factors at play, but I think you get the point.. it feels like a Steven Wright joke.

So then enter Nakman's solar setup version 3.0. 110watt flex panel, bolted to a plastic grid panel, snapped to the roof rack. Most days this sits on the roof and I get decent performance, 2 out of 3 on my best practice test, though sometimes the sun is overhead and I can hit all three. If I need to haul a canoe, or lumber, ladder, or some other big item, I can snap this off the truck and put it inside in about 30 seconds. And if I need to park in the shade for a while, but desire to still squeeze the sun for some juice, then I can pop off the panel and attach the extension cord in about 2 minutes. Here are a few pictures... will be working on a video for this one also.

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nakman

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@AimCOTaco Andy I need more info on this diode... have heard about it before but never got into it. I top out at 14.1, so another .5 or so would likely be ideal.
 

DaveInDenver

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Solar panels like hot, direct sunlight
That's not really true. They like bright, direct sunlight but solar panels have a negative temperature coefficient, the rule of thumb is -0.5% per °C. IOW for each 2°C you increase you lose 1% of your rated power, often using 25°C as baseline spec but it varies on how exactly it's stated.

And this is PV junction temperature, not air. When you expose the panel to sun it's usually quite a lot warmer than ambient. If you have one of those IR temp tools point it at your panel on a nice 75°F day and I'll bet it'll read 20° warmer. My 50W Renolgy panels will be 75°F when it's 50°F outside in full sun. If the air is still they can get really hot in the summer, well over 135°F (~60°C).

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But the trade-off is if they're getting strong irradiance 40% heat loss of 100W is potentially better than partial irradiance such that you're losing 15% heat loss of 60W with poor exposure. FWIW, this is partially why I stick with portable panels. You can tilt and rotate them periodically to follow the sun and the air flow and breeze keeps them cooler.

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Shark Bait

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Way cool, Dave. Thanks! Tim sent me some similar pictures. I like the idea of being able to take it down and point it to the sun.
 

nakman

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Yes fair point on the temperature Dave... tough to find cool direct sun though. I might argue it's a good point against mounting a panel to the hood, which people are doing now... what do you think?
 

DaveInDenver

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Yes fair point on the temperature Dave... tough to find cool direct sun though. I might argue it's a good point against mounting a panel to the hood, which people are doing now... what do you think?
I don't get the hood thing either. For one it would seem like a glare issue. Whether it's really much hotter I dunno, probably not a huge difference once you're parked.

Regards to temp, don't minimize the importance of good air circulation. It would be an interesting experiment to see the temp difference with your panel on the roof an inch or two over the roof compared to out in the open with a lot of space around it. A few degrees here, a few percent there starts to add up to real power.
 

nakman

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Most of the guys I speak to who are doing it on the hood claim the glare gets reduced, as they put a black vinyl wrap on the otherwise white hood, then bond the panel to the vinyl, which is also mostly black. The exception being someone who has mounted a rigid panel, like this:



It that setup I could probably make a case for adding glare, not reducing it. this setup here I'd give the nod to actually reducing glare:
 

CORunner

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I put a flexible solar panel on my hood. No issues with glare or heat. The flexible panels are actually a matte finish compared to gloss for the hard panels.

I have to park my cruiser on the street since it doesn't fit in my garage with a RTT. Due to that I couldn't keep the 2nd battery on my CTEK charger. It is my 2nd car, so it has gone a few weeks without charging.

I put a vinyl blackout on the hood first, then mounted the solar panel to that. It is a 65W panel connected to a BatteryMinder (charger/maintainer/desulfator). Don't need a lot of watts since I am just using it to maintain the batteries and not bring them up to charge.

Also have Blue Sea ACR. Most of the time I leave it in auto, but if I am parked for a long time I will leave the batteries manually connected to keep them both fresh. The BatteryMinder was built to keep multiple batteries maintained.

When I am camping, I usually disconnect the hood solar and use my 165W suitcase solar panel with its own controller. A lot easier to move it around with the sun.

I will probably look into the diode option too. My 100 cruiser usually only puts out barely high 13V to 14V from the alternator.

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DaveInDenver

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FWIW, the diode I found is Ford p/n 4F2Z-14A604-AA. I think list on it was $12.98 if you want to get it locally. I got it from a dealer with an online store, it was $13.12 with sales tax and postage.

It's #12 in the Ford EPC diagram.

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Appears to be a slightly modified version of the Littelfuse MINI diode. The key distinction is the corners are angled so it fits in the fusebox better. If it's similar to the Littelfuse then it's just a 1N4001 molded inside.

The Ford part:
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The Littelfuse 02400104P:
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It's too bad the Littelfuse didn't fit better because it's around $2. I bought one and broke the case trying to modify it to sit down fully into the socket.

Probably worth mentioning that I have a 2008 Tacoma that was made at NUMMI (Fremont, CA) and Toyota seems to source domestic parts so the fusebox I think was actually made by Delphi and actually uses low profile ATM fuses (like far right), not familiar ATC/ATO. The question of fitting could be different for a Japanese-made Toyota using Aisin or Denso.

If your fusebox uses ATC/ATO (like far left) the Littelfuse might fit just fine. I just couldn't get it to seat fully. The or standard profile ATM (like middle) I think might fit the Ford better, too, but depends on the way the socket is shaped.

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nakman

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Also have Blue Sea ACR. Most of the time I leave it in auto, but if I am parked for a long time I will leave the batteries manually connected to keep them both fresh. The BatteryMinder was built to keep multiple batteries maintained.
Curious why you need to do this, shouldn't need to manually switch the ACR as this should happen automatically.. ?
 

CORunner

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Curious why you need to do this, shouldn't need to manually switch the ACR as this should happen automatically.. ?
You are correct. Blue Sea is bi-directional and it can sense voltage on either battery. Just do for peace of mind since I didn't want it switching every time there was clouds or night/day. Probably over thinking the whole thing.
 

Stuckinthe80s

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I'm really digging the hood idea but it does seem like it would get wicked hot. @CORunner could you post up some measurements on output when the sun is directly overhead?

To put things in perspective on why this appeals to me, my LC is also, well, it will be a second vehicle (or is a third, or fourth :unsure:) that will just be parked most of the time. I would love to leave the second battery in the truck and use the solar to maintain both bat-trees. Although I really like Tim's approach to a fixed/not fixed panel, I don't really want a roof rack to mount it to either. What I'm thinking is just installing some flexible panels on the roof so that it is still low profile and people can't really see them. Where I park my truck it is only going to get sunlight for the first half of the day so this may be a lost cause anyways. I'm just hoping I can see some real world numbers that will help me decide.

Sorry for hijacking your thread @nakman
 

J1000

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I'm really digging the hood idea but it does seem like it would get wicked hot. @CORunner could you post up some measurements on output when the sun is directly overhead?

To put things in perspective on why this appeals to me, my LC is also, well, it will be a second vehicle (or is a third, or fourth :unsure:) that will just be parked most of the time. I would love to leave the second battery in the truck and use the solar to maintain both bat-trees. Although I really like Tim's approach to a fixed/not fixed panel, I don't really want a roof rack to mount it to either. What I'm thinking is just installing some flexible panels on the roof so that it is still low profile and people can't really see them. Where I park my truck it is only going to get sunlight for the first half of the day so this may be a lost cause anyways. I'm just hoping I can see some real world numbers that will help me decide.

Sorry for hijacking your thread @nakman
For a battery maintainer solar is awesome. My mom has a Chrysler Crossfire that had a wicked battery drain that was killing $150 AGM batteries and I was able to keep it maintained for several months with a 60W cheap panel and converter until we could get it fixed. Like I said that car had a really nasty parasitic drain so a normal vehicle it should work out great. Nobody ever messed with it in my neighborhood.

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nakman

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Nic, what if you put a flexible panel inside the windshield? So instead of one of those cardboard things to block the sun you shoved the panel in there? Yes there would be a little loss being behind the glass, and sure you might get a little loss due to the heat inside the truck... but by the time the inside of the truck got hot the sun would be gone anyway so who cares right? Would be easy to wire, and fairly tamper proof. And heck, you could swap it to other cars also... a single PWM charge controller is pretty cheap, just put one in every vehicle then swap the panel around to the next one that needs a little battery maintenance?
 

DaveInDenver

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All automotive windows block UV.
It was explained to me that laminated glass will have a UV layer but tempered glass won't unless you have a shade put on. Solar panels are actually sensitive to visible light, not UV like I said anyway, so my mistake was probably having the panel behind the tinted strip at the top.
 
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DaveInDenver

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I've been doing some measurements with the fridge lately, watching duty cycle. Captured some data from last weekend and thought the visual of duty cycle was neat anyway.

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