Guzzler/Not Megan Fox 1984 FJ60

[SteveH]

I swear the 2F was designed to leak by the Toyota engineers as some kind of sick joke.

All straight 6 manifolds tend to eat gaskets and crack manifolds, including Jeep 4.0s and Chevy 250s. The added heat and emissions of the '70s/80s/90s likely made all this worse. Straight 6s are long and cast iron expands a lot. Comes with the territory of such engines.

 

[RDub]

That’s a solid case for a header.

 

[On the RX]

I need some good methods for cleaning peepeepoopoo concrete.

First off, the hantavirus sounds like it sucks to get. If it were me, I would make a bleach solution with hot water in a spray bottle or pump sprayer and saturated that shii... poo. If that's possible. Then use a half mask respirator with a p100 and activated carbon (for the bleach). Also you should shave where the mask makes contact for a proper seal. I am currently without beard for this exact reason. I would then wear some crap clothes to toss after and hit it with a stiff bristle brush to loosen then shop vac that shite up with some bleach water in the tub of the vac to catch it. Finish with a wipe down and call any Bob because at that point, Bob's your uncle.

I have a pump sprayer and half mask with said filters if you need.

 

[MonPetiteShoe]

@MonPetiteShoe I was asking about the secondary not because I think that is likely to be the source of your issue, but just as a general question since it seems like the majority of FJ60 Aisin carb secondaries don't work. Here's a deep dive: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/aisin-secondary-tuning-ideas.1357784/

Paperclip test:
1. Get a paperclip and stick it on the rod for the secondary vacuum diaphragm. You're gonna have to contort your hand to get it in there.
2. Push it snug up against the bottom of the secondary vac pot (the cast metal housing that contains the diaphragm).
3. Go for a test drive. If your secondary is fully functioning you'll find that the paperclip is 10-12mm lower on the rod.
N.B.: When the secondary vac diaphragm is sucked in, it pulls the rod up. The cast metal housing that holds the diaphragm essentially "scrapes" the paperclip as the diaphragm rod is pulled into the metal housing. When you're off the throttle the diaphragm relaxes (since there's no more vac pulling on it) and the rod moves back out - now with the paperclip in its lower position. Anything less than 10mm means the secondary butterfly isn't fully opening, and really 12mm is what you want to see.

Paperclip Test: Sounds easy enough to give it a try, and it seems like the best test as it's simple.
Seeing as the vac source comes from the venturi, it'd be difficult to pull vacuum on the secondary diaphragm. (I am a victim of physics. Leading the charge is Bernoulli...)
I'll give it a try before I swap the carbs out. It'll give me a baseline, then repeat on the next carb.

Other sneaky things to watch out for on these particular carbs:
-Between the base and middle section is a bakelite spacer. The surface is a bonded gasket, and if that is messed up it will cause problems. If it's damaged you can scrape it off and use paper gaskets that come in some of the rebuild kits, but most of those paper gaskets have a small area that's incorrect and leaks vacuum. It's really best to just find another spacer with good bonded gasket material.
-The spacer can be put in 180 degrees out and cause a vac leak (particularly on the secondary circuit, but also for other circuits).
-If the ported screw that goes into the bottom of the carb isn't in tight it can cause leaks, potentially intermittent.
-The throttle shafts on most of these carbs leak at this point. There really isn't a solution unless you're a machinist, it requires custom fab and installation of interference fit parts.
-The secondary slow cut valves on ALL of these carbs leak. That's the small plunger-and-arm thing on the driver side of the carb when it's installed (the side facing away from the valve cover). There's a fix for this on Mud - remove, tap, and thread in a very specific bolt. If you do the fix wrong it can make the carb not work.
-The accelerator pump will leak unless you use a brand new one with a leather seal. Rubber seal plungers seem to all leak pretty quickly.

I'm going to give it the ol' college try with the new gaskets. I'll probably make a new post post going over that. I have some ideas. Sourcing an isolator in better condition sounds prudent.

If I find the time, I might get weird with some parts of this list. I doubt I'll find time. There's items on this list I'll need to reference during the hot swap. I appreciate you.

That sounds like metal/expansion/contraction to me. Could be in the carb, but I'd more so suspect the manifolds. I swear the 2F was designed to leak by the Toyota engineers as some kind of sick joke. All these guys out here 40 years later trying to get these damn things to seal up, meanwhile the engineers are rolling on the floor of the Toyota HQ offices laughing their asses off.

That was also my thought.
The current manifolds on the 2F appear to be leak-ish free. I'm going to let that sleeping dog lie and only bother with the intake where it mates to the carb. We'll see where it takes me.

A header sounds good, but if it ain't broke 'n' all that. I'd rather not deal with the EGR equipment for the time being. De-smog also isn't an option at this time.
If I pull the manifold, I'd like to constrain the manifolds, and plane the mating surface to the head. I have a line on a machinist that can spot face the "half-moon," through holes. That would at least remove some of the leakage variables. (It could also create more...)

First off, the hantavirus sounds like it sucks to get. If it were me, I would make a bleach solution with hot water in a spray bottle or pump sprayer and saturated that shii... poo. If that's possible. Then use a half mask respirator with a p100 and activated carbon (for the bleach). Also you should shave where the mask makes contact for a proper seal. I am currently without beard for this exact reason. I would then wear some crap clothes to toss after and hit it with a stiff bristle brush to loosen then shop vac that shite up with some bleach water in the tub of the vac to catch it. Finish with a wipe down and call any Bob because at that point, Bob's your uncle.

I have a pump sprayer and half mask with said filters if you need.

You're my hero. I'm unsure of a timeline, but that equipment sounds perfect.
It might be a good idea to presoak some of the affected parts.
I have a respirator if you have the filters, it's just a matter of fitment. I should probably also buy some. I have a feeling I'm going to need more..

Sounds like we got the makings of a big ol' cleaning party.

 

[RDub]

You probably know this but if you do the paper clip test find a decently long uphill and floor the accelerator pedal for 15 or so seconds or more. The secondary butterfly gets mechanically cracked open at full throttle, which allows some flow through the secondary Venturi, which is part of how the vacuum secondary dashpot actuator gets its vacuum. Lots of words there, but the secondary needs to open slightly to be able to open further, and that happens at or near full throttle. Jim @Cruisertrash knows a lot about how this works and can articulate it well if interested.

 

[On the RX]

I have a respirator if you have the filters,

My filters and respirators are made by North and the filters are specific to the manufacturer.

 

[Cruisertrash]

When @MonPetiteShoe mentioned Bernoulli I knew @RDub would comment. Ross and I have had some long discussion about that man and his principles haha! The additional articulation on the secondary circuit that Ross mentions is all in that Mud thread I linked to. Every bit of my secondary circuit knowledge is there, from fixing/repairing issues that cause the secondary to not work, to making it work mo' betta'. Follow Ross's advice of mashing the pedal to the floor for a solid 15 seconds on a good uphill run to fully test the secondary. In stock form they need quite a while to build enough vacuum for the diaphragm to move. Mine's tuned such that I have to be careful with my throttle foot otherwise the secondary will be open all the time - I have it set to come in pretty snappy so it's there right away when I need it. My 2F can pass people on a flat highway now, if just barely

Clarification: When I mention the bakelite spacer, I'm talking about one sandwiched in between sections of the carb itself and not the one that goes on top of the manifold before you lay the carb on it ... although that one can leak too. Also, when you have the carb off to replace the spacer/heat shield that lays on the manifold, get a wrench on those manifold bolts and get them back to 30-35ft lb.

Hey, another weird thing I thought of ... remember back in July when I was putting my new 2F in and I grabbed a manifold gasket from you guys? I'm not 100% convinced that's it fits. Those gaskets have "fire rings" around the ports - I know they're not really fire rings like a head gasket has, but similar crimped metal around the port openings. I noticed those sit almost entirely outside of the manifold in a few places, meaning only about 1mm of them is getting crushed, if that. I had my carb off in September and there's lots of black streaks of exhaust leaking out, and I've had weird vacuum issues meaning the intake is probably leaking too. Now, I don't think that's y'alls fault. Toyota has changed part numbers over time and sometimes when they say a new part supercession applies to a certain vehicle, it actually doesn't apply exactly. The "new" oil pans for example: there were three part numbers for F, 2F, and 3F oil pans and Toyota has now gone to one part number for a single oil pan that supposedly applies to all of those motors. Well, on early 2Fs anyways, the oil pump and dipstick interfere with one of the baffles. It needs some tweaks to fit. Could be a similar thing with those gaskets is all I'm saying. Check yours carefully when you have the carb off. I'm going to a non-efi 3F manifold soon, which requires a totally different gasket, so hopefully that cures or at least alleviates my issues.

And please don't get hantavirus and die on us. We like you Josh.

 

[DanS]

I need some good methods for cleaning peepeepoopoo concrete.
I was thinking about using a pressure washer on the heater vents/plumbing. The hard part is all the nooks and crannies on the metal sub-dash-parts and ancillaries.
I'll probably end up pulling the carpet to check the floor, clean, and killmat at some point.

Dad's got a little steam cleaner that has worked wonders cleaning peepeepoopoocrete out of the HJ45. I think it's a Wagner 905 by the looks of it.

Dan

 

[SaintAgatha]

Can we just burn it? Take it to an undisclosed location and burn the literal shit out of it?

PS I cleaned a f*ck ton of mouse shit out of our basement at work and I am still alive. But let's also make sure that we all survive this mouse poopoopeepeeconcrete ordeal mmmmkay thanks.

 

[MonPetiteShoe]

You probably know this but if you do the paper clip test find a decently long uphill and floor the accelerator pedal for 15 or so seconds or more. The secondary butterfly gets mechanically cracked open at full throttle, which allows some flow through the secondary Venturi, which is part of how the vacuum secondary dashpot actuator gets its vacuum. Lots of words there, but the secondary needs to open slightly to be able to open further, and that happens at or near full throttle. Jim @Cruisertrash knows a lot about how this works and can articulate it well if interested.

Hell yuh. When we pulled/rebuilt the carb almost a year ago, I checked to make sure everything was functioning as intended, mechanically. The secondary is def opened via the lever arm. I'm uncertain the fuel path to the secondary is clear. Sounds like I can remove the diaphragm, introduce a little brake cleaner, and put some air through it.

Clarification: When I mention the bakelite spacer, I'm talking about one sandwiched in between sections of the carb itself and not the one that goes on top of the manifold before you lay the carb on it ... although that one can leak too. Also, when you have the carb off to replace the spacer/heat shield that lays on the manifold, get a wrench on those manifold bolts and get them back to 30-35ft lb.

That spacer's oriented correct AF, that much I know. When toyota puts a bezel on three separate parts, and a neat little groove where some milled features are, You know I'ma listen to them. Square peg, square hole. I just figured that one out a couple years ago.

I believe my seepage is coming from the isolator on top of the manifold. Those are the gaskets I intend to swap. They didn't come with the Keyster kit, so we rolled the dice and reused them. The new carb is a whole, unmolested unit. I'll test the secondary mechanical/fuel path prior to install, then confirm with a hot rod pull and paperclip.

But first.... The place where the people sits. The plan is to strip the interior and give 'er a thorough going through.

Dad's got a little steam cleaner that has worked wonders cleaning peepeepoopoocrete out of the HJ45. I think it's a Wagner 905 by the looks of it.

Dan

12 accessories included!? How can I lose!? Added to the list.



Adam, are these the filters you were chattin' about? Or is this a bit overkill?

North 75SCL Defender Gas Vapor Cartridge​

This cartridge is rated for: Organic Vapor, Chlorine, Hydrogen Chloride, Sulfur Dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide (Escape), Hydrogen Fluoride, Chlorine Dioxide, Ammonia, Methylamine, and Formaldehyde (as long as your contaminants are within the allowable range).

That's a lot of letters. It's gonna get weird.


Nancy, if I reach my patience threshold, you'll be the first to know...

Gentleman and ladies, we have a path forward. Thanks for gettin' me learned/relearned.

 

[On the RX]

Adam, are these the filters you were chattin' about? Or is this a bit overkill?

Those are good for the bleach vapors. As an added precaution and to ensure that you don't inhale particulate, i have the North 75SCP100L Defender Gas Vapor Plus P100 Filter combo Cartridge. Same as the 75scl but with a p100 particulate cartridge attached. These will keep all dust particles out of your air sucker. I use these for anything that stinks and has the potential to kick up dust, primarily asbestos dust. If you keep everything wet, the particulate would be overkill.

If you have a north mask, I'll give you a pair of the 75SCP100L.

 

[Cruisertrash]

Hell yuh. When we pulled/rebuilt the carb almost a year ago, I checked to make sure everything was functioning as intended, mechanically. The secondary is def opened via the lever arm. I'm uncertain the fuel path to the secondary is clear. Sounds like I can remove the diaphragm, introduce a little brake cleaner, and put some air through it.


That spacer's oriented correct AF, that much I know. When toyota puts a bezel on three separate parts, and a neat little groove where some milled features are, You know I'ma listen to them. Square peg, square hole. I just figured that one out a couple years ago.

I believe my seepage is coming from the isolator on top of the manifold. Those are the gaskets I intend to swap. They didn't come with the Keyster kit, so we rolled the dice and reused them. The new carb is a whole, unmolested unit. I'll test the secondary mechanical/fuel path prior to install, then confirm with a hot rod pull and paperclip.

But first.... The place where the people sits. The plan is to strip the interior and give 'er a thorough going through.


12 accessories included!? How can I lose!? Added to the list.



Adam, are these the filters you were chattin' about? Or is this a bit overkill?

North 75SCL Defender Gas Vapor Cartridge​

This cartridge is rated for: Organic Vapor, Chlorine, Hydrogen Chloride, Sulfur Dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide (Escape), Hydrogen Fluoride, Chlorine Dioxide, Ammonia, Methylamine, and Formaldehyde (as long as your contaminants are within the allowable range).

That's a lot of letters. It's gonna get weird.


Nancy, if I reach my patience threshold, you'll be the first to know...

Gentleman and ladies, we have a path forward. Thanks for gettin' me learned/relearned.

The gasket at the base of the carb has bonded gaskets! No need for the extra paper gaskets that come in the rebuild kits.

And yeah, those wallpaper removal steamers are great for lots of stuff. They used to be pretty cheap back in the day when I bought a couple.