FJ60 brake upgrades

[DanS]

I haven’t looked at the Mud threads on this topic in ages but I “think” I remember something about having to do a little grinding on the 4Runner calipers to get them to clear the 60 Series hubs. Nothing major if memory serves.

You're talking 89-95 IFS 4Runner calipers, also V6 trucks usually had the same. The grinding is of the fins on the side of the caliper, which doesn't clear a stock 40 or 60 series wheel. I've done it on a couple trucks. Cheaper than stock calipers, much more available. Next time, I'll get some from a junkyard, powder coat them after grinding the fins a bit (or put them in the mill and mill them off so it's even prettier) and rebuild them myself.

As to the MC, my long stalled HZJ60 project has a T100 MC I think. Either that or a non ABS 80 series MC. Either way it's new.

Dan

 

[Rzeppa]

Fresh pads, newly machined rotors, drum adjustment and fluid flush really do go a long way IMO. Having fresh master and wheel cylinder bores and seals should not be overlooked.

^^This

That said. Ih8workingondrumbrakes.

To me, the biggest issue with drum brakes is proper adjustment, which is something that you don't have to deal with with disk brakes. All my drum brake Land Cruisers work just fine with drums; before Woody really got mud up and rolling he linked the page I had on my web site about how to make your Land Cruiser drum brakes work just fine.

Note that big trucks use drums, not disks.

That said, I experienced first hand the myth that disk brakes can't overheat. At Cruise Moab 2002, I broke my pinion on my HZJ75. Thankfully with the FF rear, the axles stayed put so I was in front wheel drive, pulled the rear drive shaft and was in business, in front wheel drive. But then I broke my front differential and had to pull my front drive shaft. So now I am a rolling chariot with only brakes and steering to get me back to camp at Slickrock while being strapped by Butch Baker. Coming down from Sandy Flats, while they didn't actually catch on fire, they were smokin' by the time we got back into town.

On topic for THIS thread, my armored 60 on 33s could easily lock all 4 wheels with all stock brakes. As Steve noted above, if you get the star wheel too tight on a 60 (which happens to be the same setup on a 70 series) it is a PITA to loosen it without taking the drum off. The 60 and 75 (and I assume 62) configuration tightens the adjustment whenever you have the brakes applied and also apply the parking brake.

 

[IH8RUST]

Jeff, started reading your page, for some reason, it evoked this, and not to make it somber, but today marks 1 year since my dad's passing. I used to help him change the drum brakes way back in the day, but I never really paid attention or was hands-on enough to learn from him. It sure would have been a lot of fun to have the man work on it with me.

 

[Crash]

You're talking 89-95 IFS 4Runner calipers, also V6 trucks usually had the same. The grinding is of the fins on the side of the caliper, which doesn't clear a stock 40 or 60 series wheel. I've done it on a couple trucks. Cheaper than stock calipers, much more available. Next time, I'll get some from a junkyard, powder coat them after grinding the fins a bit (or put them in the mill and mill them off so it's even prettier) and rebuild them myself.

As to the MC, my long stalled HZJ60 project has a T100 MC I think. Either that or a non ABS 80 series MC. Either way it's new.

Dan

I have my non ABS 1” m/c that’s free to anyone who wants it.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

. As Steve noted above, if you get the star wheel too tight on a 60 (which happens to be the same setup on a 70 series) it is a PITA to loosen it without taking the drum off. The 60 and 75 (and I assume 62) configuration tightens the adjustment whenever you have the brakes applied and also apply the parking brake.

Yep. Amen. Learned hard way just the other day.

 

[Crash]

Yep. Amen. Learned hard way just the other day.

And it was really hard to get the drum off when the shoes are jammed up against the drum because you adjusted them too tight, wasn’t it Sean?

 

[Telly]

@IH8RUST I'm pretty sure I saw you driving downtown C/S around 12:30 yesterday! I'm following this tread closely too. I used to tow a pop-up with my 87 FJ60 (V8) and it was sketchy stopping at down sloping street stop light situations. My setup is all stock and all rebuilt with OEM components about 10 years ago. I wouldn't mind an upgrade right about now.

 

[IH8RUST]

@IH8RUST I'm pretty sure I saw you driving downtown C/S around 12:30 yesterday! I'm following this tread closely too. I used to tow a pop-up with my 87 FJ60 (V8) and it was sketchy stopping at down sloping street stop light situations. My setup is all stock and all rebuilt with OEM components about 10 years ago. I wouldn't mind an upgrade right about now.

Yup, that was me, visiting the good ole S101 room for a filing

I went down the rabbit hole for sure. My takeaway, as pointed out here, is to consider better calipers for the front, higher-rated brake oil, or to opt for larger rotors with larger calipers, which aligns with my original post about Powerbrakes. That's a $3700 upgrade.

More here: https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/2/18/ks2agsihqg3axmbdbgly8lj5nann6z

 

[rover67]

Maybe it's different now (I no longer own the 60), but one advantage of changing to the 4runner calipers on an FJ60 was that you got more pad options. If you can run more agressive and heat tolerant compounds that helps braking performance with a setup that is undersized for the application. The trade offs would be more brake dust, more rotor wear, maybe worse cold braking performance, and shorter pad life

 

[Crash]

My questions answered: https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/2/18/ks2agsihqg3axmbdbgly8lj5nann6z


Yup, that was me, visiting the good ole S101 room for a filing

I went down the rabbit hole for sure. My takeaway, as pointed out here, is to consider better calipers for the front, higher-rated brake oil, or to opt for larger rotors with larger calipers, which aligns with my original post about Powerbrakes. That's a $3700 upgrade.

More here: https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/2/18/ks2agsihqg3axmbdbgly8lj5nann6z

Larger rotors will require larger diameter wheels.

 

[IH8RUST]

In my previous reply, I mentioned I have 16", most are selling big brake kits for 17" wheels, the one I referenced _appears_ to fit a 16". I'd have to verify, I'm still not convinced that's what I need, other than knowing it's one possible, albeit expensive option.

 

[Rzeppa]

My questions answered: https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2019/2/18/ks2agsihqg3axmbdbgly8lj5nann6z

That was a very well written article. My 1-ton FJ45 has 3 inch drums, 50% wider than a 40/55. Compared to my 40s or my 75 or my 60, it'll put your nose on the windshield pretty easy. And with more mass in the drums due to increased width, theoretically it should handle more heat than its 2" wide counterpart.

I don't know that disks stop any better than properly adjusted drums, they just don't need to be adjusted. It is curious that big trucks use drums and airplanes use disks though.

Will, please accept my condolences about losing your father. Coincidentally, the life insurance payout from when my dad died in 1982 was used to buy my first Land Cruiser, my 1976 FJ40 that I still have today.

 

[RDub]

American over the road trucks use drum brakes predominantly due to cost. Disc brakes perform better in every way, but the use case for semis is not the same as vehicles driven predominantly in stop and go traffic, hence drums brakes make a lot more economic sense for semis.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

I had my rear drum cylinders replaced when the 60 was down at Keith's Garage. He adjusted the drums at the same time and I noticed a pretty marked improvement after.

Have you looked at your soft lines when breaking? When they are super old they can expand a bit under pressure which reduces your breaking power.

Offroad I always try to take advantage of gearing going downhill and use the brakes as little as possible.

My 60 also has had the MC and booster replaced at some point. Not sure when. The 80 had a slightly leaking booster for a few years. It was a huge improvement when I finally changed it out.

 

[IH8RUST]

I have OEM cylinders stored in boxes; it's planned work, which means I'm still on the right track I need to review the manifests. I was sure that we had already replaced the soft lines, as I see them in the inventory of the purchases. I'm still using the OE booster, that's for sure. Where I landed with all of this was to plan the maintenance work for brakes, while I explore the possible "upgrades" before then. Certainly not in a rush, so I have time to think through it.

 

[MDH33]

I have these SSBC calipers on my 60 that were sold by TLC 4x4 back in the day. They work great and are direct bolt on. Not sure if TLC sells them anymore, but they might be a stock SSBC item? Pics from 'mud: