wesintl
Moderator
I've always used a brass drift to knock out the bottom one out throught the side of the knuckle then use it vertically through the bottom of the one just removed to knock out the top one.
FJ40 Disc Brake Conversion
- Thread starter RicardoJM
- Start date
I've always used a brass drift to knock out the bottom one out throught the side of the knuckle then use it vertically through the bottom of the one just removed to knock out the top one.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
So here is my disc brake knuckle goodness getting ready to be cleaned up. The shims are on the posts right where they were. For me it will be easier to keep the orientation and placement correct - just have to make sure they don't accidentally slip off through the cleaning process.
Thanks for all the tips on getting the cone washers off. The bottom ones loosened up with a couple of taps on the knuckle body. I basically used the wesintl method to tap out the bottom and then pop out the top.
I tried using my puller but could not get the puller arms and bolt to line up straight enough to stay centered as the puller engaged. I'm thinking I may really need a pickle fork to get them separated. This is how the passenger side one currently looks. The driver side is just the same, just on the other side of the long pole.
On the good news side, the pile of parts that have gone through the washer is growing. The dust covers may need a bit more work to get the hazy dust off before hitting up with some spray paint.
Martin, you expressed a need for the 3rd member, it's yours for the taking
. PM me to arrange getting it, only thing is I (my wife) would appreciate it if you also take the axle housing as well. It should be a bit lighter than when I picked it up, but it is still heavy enough to hold down those jack stands.
Thanks for all the tips on getting the cone washers off. The bottom ones loosened up with a couple of taps on the knuckle body. I basically used the wesintl method to tap out the bottom and then pop out the top.
I tried using my puller but could not get the puller arms and bolt to line up straight enough to stay centered as the puller engaged. I'm thinking I may really need a pickle fork to get them separated. This is how the passenger side one currently looks. The driver side is just the same, just on the other side of the long pole.
On the good news side, the pile of parts that have gone through the washer is growing. The dust covers may need a bit more work to get the hazy dust off before hitting up with some spray paint.
Martin, you expressed a need for the 3rd member, it's yours for the taking
. PM me to arrange getting it, only thing is I (my wife) would appreciate it if you also take the axle housing as well. It should be a bit lighter than when I picked it up, but it is still heavy enough to hold down those jack stands.
Rzeppa
Rising Sun Member
Wow Ricardo! I've seen a lot of rear steer setups over the years but this one is pretty unique!
wesintl
Moderator
found em ricardo, let me know if you still need em.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
The front axle rebuild kit and bearings arrived. It is going to be nice to have all the new innards. The old bearings would be ok to put back in but as they likely have fewer good days ahead of them than new ones - it seemed reasonable to go ahead and put in new ones at this time. The old ones will make good spares. Here are all the parts that arrived today.
I also started painting the iron and should complete that in the next couple of days. Wes, I may reach out and take you up on the puller and dials. That said, I should be able to make it out to the yard this week for a dial(s). I stopped by a place on S Santa Fe Thursday evening. They had a 60 but someone had already pulled the dials.
My plan is to remove everything from the front of the 40 this week and to put all the new stuff on this Saturday. I've put in an inquiry on the knuckle centering tool thread to see if I can borrow the SST. Better to measure and be sure than that to just re-use the old and not really know it it is off.
I also started painting the iron and should complete that in the next couple of days. Wes, I may reach out and take you up on the puller and dials. That said, I should be able to make it out to the yard this week for a dial(s). I stopped by a place on S Santa Fe Thursday evening. They had a 60 but someone had already pulled the dials.
My plan is to remove everything from the front of the 40 this week and to put all the new stuff on this Saturday. I've put in an inquiry on the knuckle centering tool thread to see if I can borrow the SST. Better to measure and be sure than that to just re-use the old and not really know it it is off.
Shark Bait
Rising Sun Member
Ricardo, what are you using for steering arms again? 
MDH33
Hard Core 4+
Martin, you expressed a need for the 3rd member, it's yours for the taking
Yes sir, I'll take it along with the housing. I'll try to set something up for early this week. Thanks!
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Ricardo, what are you using for steering arms again?
I found this thread to be particularly valuable in doing the swap. In post #36, there are three options listed. I will be using the steering arms from the 60 and going with option #2, using the starter bushing part # SBO to account for the different taper. This post shows how to get the bushing in place.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Steering Arms are off
After researching a bit more, I found that I may have been expecting too much from my puller. It really won't pull the steering arm off, it is best used to put pressure on the connection so that when you tap the side of the steering arm it "pops" right off. This morning I went out to try this technique and one side came right off. The other side took a bit of work, but it also came off. The steering arms are in the parts washer soaking a bit.
After researching a bit more, I found that I may have been expecting too much from my puller. It really won't pull the steering arm off, it is best used to put pressure on the connection so that when you tap the side of the steering arm it "pops" right off. This morning I went out to try this technique and one side came right off. The other side took a bit of work, but it also came off. The steering arms are in the parts washer soaking a bit.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Progress continued today with separating the steering arms from the rod, banging out the old bearing races and getting some paint on the iron parts. Here are the knuckles, steering arms and inner hubs.
The right knuckle.
The left knuckle.
The paint job will not win any awards, but it is nice to see these shine versus the grimy patina they had when removed. If nothing else being able to clearly see the R and L minimize the chances that I'll put them on the wrong side.
The right knuckle.
The left knuckle.
The paint job will not win any awards, but it is nice to see these shine versus the grimy patina they had when removed. If nothing else being able to clearly see the R and L minimize the chances that I'll put them on the wrong side.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Wes and Cresso, thanks for the lead on where I could find new caps. I found these from an IFS 4-runner at the pull-n-save for $4.45. Wes, thanks for the offer of your dials, but I am set. Here are the "new old caps" on the locking hub body.
Granted, they are not much to look at but with a bit of scrubbing and some new paint and they will be lookers - most important they work. They are smooth and solid in the rotation. For the technical content, most of the components of the Aisin locking hubs are interchangeable across the years. There is a bunch of information out there, but I found this article to be very educating.
I still need to pick up a proportioning valve, but new calipers and rotors are in place and ready to go.
. I found these from an IFS 4-runner at the pull-n-save for $4.45. Wes, thanks for the offer of your dials, but I am set. Here are the "new old caps" on the locking hub body.
Granted, they are not much to look at but with a bit of scrubbing and some new paint and they will be lookers - most important they work. They are smooth and solid in the rotation. For the technical content, most of the components of the Aisin locking hubs are interchangeable across the years. There is a bunch of information out there, but I found this article to be very educating.
I still need to pick up a proportioning valve, but new calipers and rotors are in place and ready to go.
Rzeppa
Rising Sun Member
Hey Ricardo, are you going to rebuild that center arm or did I miss that?
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Did you mean "knuckle centering tool"? I do intend to use a knuckle centering tool. There are two people on our forum that have this tool. Essentially the conversion to disc brakes up front includes a full knuckle rebuild. In most full knuckle rebuild cases people are not changing any of the major (axle, knuckle, shims) parts involved - and it makes sense that reusing the shims and being careful to put them in the same location will work. The difference here is that one of the major parts (axle) is new. In this circumstance, it is worth the time and effort to check that all the parts are in harmony and balance.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Almost a week and no update has been posted but that does not mean no progress has been made...
Jeff, I now understand about the center arm. It has not been done yet and is on the short list of projects but definitely needs to wait until after I get through with this one.
Thanks to Subzali, I will be using a knuckle centering tool to make sure I get the correct shims for the 60 series knuckles.
My birfield/axle separating tool worked. The long side axle was really smooth, two drops and it was out. The short side was not soo smooth, but it eventually separated as well. The ends of my pipe are a bit deformed from the ordeal. In my enthusiasm to use the tool, I neglected to really clean out the grease from the birfield housing. That first drop was a messy one.
The FJ60 birfields have been cleaned up. Putting the cage and balls back in is one of the things from the WBPP that Crash helped me with. I took them apart and put them together several times after they were cleaned up so that I am now very familiar with how they go together. Hopefully, it just like learning the rubics cube, i.e. by the next time I have to do it again I will have forgotten.
The new wheel bearing races have all been put in place. I used the old races to get them seated. I also have the wheel studs in place. They still need to be fully seated as they have about 1/8" gap. For the last little bit, it will be a two person job; one to hold the housing while the other works the socket to seat the studs firm.
While the knuckle studs on the FJ60 doaner were all in good shape, I went ahead and replaced them with new ones purchased from Toyota. It is one of those things that didn't need to be done, but as long as I was in there it makes sense to go ahead and do. The new studs are nice and shiny and have a torx head so getting them installed was a breeze. A 11/32 socket is just the right size for the torx head.
A technical note here, all threads are being coated with anti-seize as they go back in. Having dealt with snapped bolts because they have frozen in place has made me a firm believer in making sure whatever goes together will also come apart (if needed) without breaking.
I cleaned up the hub dials, sanded off the old paint, taped them off and put on some new color. It is not a standard issue color scheme, but I like it just fine as the outer ring is color coordinated with my bumper
. While I was at it all the hub internals were taken apart cleaned, greased up and put back together. New o-rings were installed. The hubs are like new.
Last night I removed the knuckles and components from the drivers side axle on the FJ40. I'm having a bit of trouble getting the steering arm seperated from the tie rod, so I may end up borrowing Wes's puller. I just can't seem to get my puller to stay in place as it tightens up. Tonight I finished up the passenger side. Here it is ready for the FJ60 parts.
For all that are following and have lent a hand so far, thanks.
Jeff, I now understand about the center arm. It has not been done yet and is on the short list of projects but definitely needs to wait until after I get through with this one.
Thanks to Subzali, I will be using a knuckle centering tool to make sure I get the correct shims for the 60 series knuckles.
My birfield/axle separating tool worked. The long side axle was really smooth, two drops and it was out. The short side was not soo smooth, but it eventually separated as well. The ends of my pipe are a bit deformed from the ordeal. In my enthusiasm to use the tool, I neglected to really clean out the grease from the birfield housing. That first drop was a messy one.
The FJ60 birfields have been cleaned up. Putting the cage and balls back in is one of the things from the WBPP that Crash helped me with. I took them apart and put them together several times after they were cleaned up so that I am now very familiar with how they go together. Hopefully, it just like learning the rubics cube, i.e. by the next time I have to do it again I will have forgotten.
The new wheel bearing races have all been put in place. I used the old races to get them seated. I also have the wheel studs in place. They still need to be fully seated as they have about 1/8" gap. For the last little bit, it will be a two person job; one to hold the housing while the other works the socket to seat the studs firm.
While the knuckle studs on the FJ60 doaner were all in good shape, I went ahead and replaced them with new ones purchased from Toyota. It is one of those things that didn't need to be done, but as long as I was in there it makes sense to go ahead and do. The new studs are nice and shiny and have a torx head so getting them installed was a breeze. A 11/32 socket is just the right size for the torx head.
A technical note here, all threads are being coated with anti-seize as they go back in. Having dealt with snapped bolts because they have frozen in place has made me a firm believer in making sure whatever goes together will also come apart (if needed) without breaking.
I cleaned up the hub dials, sanded off the old paint, taped them off and put on some new color. It is not a standard issue color scheme, but I like it just fine as the outer ring is color coordinated with my bumper
. While I was at it all the hub internals were taken apart cleaned, greased up and put back together. New o-rings were installed. The hubs are like new.
Last night I removed the knuckles and components from the drivers side axle on the FJ40. I'm having a bit of trouble getting the steering arm seperated from the tie rod, so I may end up borrowing Wes's puller. I just can't seem to get my puller to stay in place as it tightens up. Tonight I finished up the passenger side. Here it is ready for the FJ60 parts.
For all that are following and have lent a hand so far, thanks.
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wesintl
Moderator
I'd be careful as to what your applying anti seize to. you don't want it on wheel studs and I can't think of anything else on the knuckle you want it on. I certainly wouldn't use it on your steering arm studs
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
That is a good point, would not want the lug nuts to work their way off. I put it on the knuckle end of the steering arm studs where they seat down into the knuckle but will not use it on the top side.
EDIT: use a real tie rod end puller..
BTW I think I have a center arm or two that I tried on my truck, thinking they were the culprit of my loose steering. Turns out it's my steering box, so these center arm(s) are probably in good shape. You can have one (or both) if you like, though a rebuild is easy and cheap too.
BTW I think I have a center arm or two that I tried on my truck, thinking they were the culprit of my loose steering. Turns out it's my steering box, so these center arm(s) are probably in good shape. You can have one (or both) if you like, though a rebuild is easy and cheap too.
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Check out part #60 on This SOR page. What we were looking at IS a proportioning valve, though not seemingly adjustable and designed to have Toyota discs up front with the 7/8" bore wheel cylinders in the back.
I'm looking through the May/June '05 issue of Toyota Trails, and found this in the tech section (I'm chock full of these today)
I'm looking through the May/June '05 issue of Toyota Trails, and found this in the tech section (I'm chock full of these today
)Mark Whatley said:
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
Shims
Thanks to Subzali, I spent the afternoon working with the knuckle centering tool. My total shim need is 4.35 mm. This seems to be high, but I redid the measurements a couple of times. The new shims package total 2.8mm (4 .5mm and 4 .2mm) in size but Crash has a stash of shims he has collected over the years and thinks he may have the additional ones I need. Researching when Subzali did this he needed a total of 1.93mm (98 mm on the drivers side and .95 mm on the passenger side) of shims. The old shims from the FJ60 totaled 3mm, which is still more than what would come in a new shim package anyway.
For those of you that have put 60 knuckles on a 40 and used the SST to figure your shim needs - what did you end up needing?
As mentioned I rechecked all my measurements a couple of times and here is where I am at, on the drivers side my total shim need is for 2.37 mm (1.9 mm upper / .47 mm lower) and on the passenger side my total shim need is 1.98 (.97 mm upper / 1.01 mm lower).
Ideally, I will get 4 1mm shims from Crash's stash when I meet him for lunch tomorrow. With these and what I have in the new shim package, the following will go on the knuckles
Drivers Side
Passenger Side
I'll likely go through the numbers one more time, it should go pretty quick the 3rd time around. In any event I am feeling really good about taking the time to use the knuckle centering SST. Without it, I would have reused the shims from the FJ60 and been way off from what is needed for the combination of my old FJ40 axle housing and the new (to me) FJ60 knuckles and new trunion bearings. Of course, the pre-load test would have kept things from getting too far out of whack, but it is good to know it will be right.
Thanks Subzali, and it was great to catch you on the radio this morning. You were coming in full quieting on the repeater.
Thanks to Subzali, I spent the afternoon working with the knuckle centering tool. My total shim need is 4.35 mm. This seems to be high, but I redid the measurements a couple of times. The new shims package total 2.8mm (4 .5mm and 4 .2mm) in size but Crash has a stash of shims he has collected over the years and thinks he may have the additional ones I need. Researching when Subzali did this he needed a total of 1.93mm (98 mm on the drivers side and .95 mm on the passenger side) of shims. The old shims from the FJ60 totaled 3mm, which is still more than what would come in a new shim package anyway.
For those of you that have put 60 knuckles on a 40 and used the SST to figure your shim needs - what did you end up needing?
As mentioned I rechecked all my measurements a couple of times and here is where I am at, on the drivers side my total shim need is for 2.37 mm (1.9 mm upper / .47 mm lower) and on the passenger side my total shim need is 1.98 (.97 mm upper / 1.01 mm lower).
Ideally, I will get 4 1mm shims from Crash's stash when I meet him for lunch tomorrow. With these and what I have in the new shim package, the following will go on the knuckles
Drivers Side
Need 1.9mm upper - use 2 1mm shims
Need .47mm lower - use 1 .4mm shim
Need .47mm lower - use 1 .4mm shim
Passenger Side
Need .97mm upper - use 1 1mm shim
Need 1.01mm lower - use 1 1mm shim
Need 1.01mm lower - use 1 1mm shim
I'll likely go through the numbers one more time, it should go pretty quick the 3rd time around
. In any event I am feeling really good about taking the time to use the knuckle centering SST. Without it, I would have reused the shims from the FJ60 and been way off from what is needed for the combination of my old FJ40 axle housing and the new (to me) FJ60 knuckles and new trunion bearings. Of course, the pre-load test would have kept things from getting too far out of whack, but it is good to know it will be right. Thanks Subzali, and it was great to catch you on the radio this morning. You were coming in full quieting on the repeater.
RicardoJM
Hard Core 4+
After 3 weeks without knuckles, the FJ40 now has them again. I took last weekend off to do some fishing up in RMNP and got back around to working on the conversion this weekend. Yesterday, I grounded out the bell, put on the knuckles and tested the preload. Today, I got the axles and birfs put together only to find I should have grounded out the bell a bit more on the drivers side. No worries, took the knuckles off and hit it with the grinder just a bit more. Things are progressing, here is how it looks as of right now.
As of this evening (07-28) the spindle and dust cover are back on and yes, I packed that bell and them knuckles with grease. I picked up a whole new tub for when my WBPP tub ran out.
The evening of 08-04, I got the hubs, rotor and caliper on.
As of this evening (07-28) the spindle and dust cover are back on and yes, I packed that bell and them knuckles with grease
. I picked up a whole new tub for when my WBPP tub ran out.
The evening of 08-04, I got the hubs, rotor and caliper on.
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