80 Series LSPV Delete?

Telly

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This question is actually for my 95 HDJ81, which has the same brake setup as the FZJ80. So my brakes generally suck, especially in low range with the diesel torque trying to overtake the brake pedal. I installed new rotors and pads on all four corners right after I bought it (the seller included the parts). I've been reading a few threads on MUD about deleting the LSPV and ABS and the overwhelming opinion is it's like night and day improvement in braking performance. I'm thinking strongly about doing away with the LSPV and keeping the ABS. I don't like the idea of deleting the ABS because I occasionally drive in snow/ice conditions and the possibility of locking up the rear tires is no bueno.

Anyone done this and have any comments?
 

Notyourmomslx450

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i did both the ABS and LSPV. It's a huge difference in braking power, but ever since i cammed the LS they kinda suck again.
I did the ABS and LSPV delete probably 7 years or so ago and would do it again if i had another 80.
I'm looking at doing the TOR Fab eclectic brake booster..
 

Telly

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Yeah most folks delete both per MUD threads. Have you had any scary braking situations on icy or slick roads without ABS?

My son's 96 has the complete DBA brake upgrade from Slee. His rig stops extremely well.
 
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IoN6

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I removed both LSPV and ABS on my 93 and could not be happier. It has waaaay better brakes than the Tacoma. I have DBA rotors front and rear, 100 series pads in the front and also did new calipers all the way around last brake job.

No issues in snow/ice. I prefer no ABS though.
 
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KC Masterpiece

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I have a bracket for my 80 and the LSPV functions normally.

I also considered deleting but changed my mind after I did a full 720 spin on ice on the way home from Abasin. I am still amazed I did not roll the truck or go off the road. I have the same concern about no ABS.
 
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Inukshuk

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ABS and LSPV deleted on LongCruiser. New Master Cylinder, Booster, and all rubber hoses. Its 9,000 LBS tops as well as the 1993 wheeling truck
1993 wheeling truck - ABS nonfunctioning and want to delete soon. May leave or even replace LSPV.
Both have Hawk LTS pads which helped.
1993 wheeling truck has DBA rotors which are noticeably better.

In 1993 wheeling truck I always notice when sliding towards a stop if I release the pulsing pedal and then press again the ABS would not re-engage and I could stop much faster. The 80 series 1990's ABS is three channel, good for its time, but not like a modern quick reaction 4 channel. For a skilled driver it is arguably worse. For a less skilled driver who has only driven ABS vehicles, maybe.

My experience is that it is not "night and day improvement" but maybe cloudy vs sunny. For snow and ice, snow tires ARE IMHO "night and day improvement"
 

Notyourmomslx450

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Yeah most folks delete both per MUD threads. Have you had any scary braking situations on icy or slick roads without ABS?

My son's 96 has the complete DBA brake upgrade from Slee. His rig stops extremely well.
not really... a lot of us grew up with out ABS, so it's like driving almost everything i ever owned before. I don't like ABS on snowy roads, but that's just me
 

Pz10420

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I deleted both on my 80 if you wanna take it for a spin and see if you can feel any difference on the hills in our neighborhood.
 

Hulk

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I deleted the LSPV but not ABS as well.

I have OEM 100 series pads on the front — they don't improve braking power but they last 3X longer than 80 pads.

Just recently did new rotors, pads, calipers, and e-brake shoes on the rear. Stopping power is about the same, but now I have a working e-brake again which is nice.
 

Pz10420

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I have heard that a new brake booster can make a solid improvement depending on the condition of your old one. Not sure how to validate if a brake booster is getting tired though.
 

KC Masterpiece

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I have heard that a new brake booster can make a solid improvement depending on the condition of your old one. Not sure how to validate if a brake booster is getting tired though.

I definitely had a huge improvement on my 80 when I replaced the booster.
 

nuclearlemon

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I'm in the fully deleted boat and love it there.
 

Inukshuk

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I have heard that a new brake booster can make a solid improvement depending on the condition of your old one. Not sure how to validate if a brake booster is getting tired though.
Cannot say because I did other things to LongCruiser at the same time but I figured with the weight of that truck, carrying people, and deleting ABS I would have on my side in a liability situation that I'd replaced the most vulnerable 30 year old components.
 

devo

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Do you really need the LSPV on a lifted 80? Correct me if I’m wrong, the load sensing is supposed to shift the braking to the rear when the vehicle is loaded? With a lift you need to raise the rod higher to equalize braking pressure front to rear. By raising the rod with a lift does that not shift the braking proportionally to the rear anyway?
If your brake booster checks out per the FSM could it still be weak or faulty?
 

DaveInDenver

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Do you really need the LSPV on a lifted 80? Correct me if I’m wrong, the load sensing is supposed to shift the braking to the rear when the vehicle is loaded? With a lift you need to raise the rod higher to equalize braking pressure front to rear. By raising the rod with a lift does that not shift the braking proportionally to the rear anyway?
The LSPV, as it worked on mini trucks anyway, is supposed to modulate the amount of braking the rear does as the cargo increases, which is assumed to cause the rear suspension to compress, pushing the rod up.

stock_LSPV.jpg

When you lift but leave the LSPV untouched it does the opposite, makes it seem like the rear is unloaded even more, essentially rendering the rear brakes 100% off.

The idea with the bracket is to raise the rod the same amount as you lifted, which is supposed to put you back to the original geometry.

bracket_lspv.jpg

It is my observation that a few things are in play here.

First is that most people's LSPV wasn't set right in the first place. Or not functional, blocked or otherwise just not working. Or moving the rod that for years sat mostly in one spot probably let loose dirt and rust that's built up inside that valve.

Second is that even if it was working right this offset is only approximate and you 99.9% of the time aren't getting this exact amount of lift.

The procedure to set the rod in the FSM has you using front and rear pressure but most of us drive on a dirt or gravel surface and find the rear lock up point. It's a pretty rough way to do it but it works to find a starting point from whence you tune the rod height. Even done right the whole system is pretty vague anyway.

You don't absolutely need the lift offset bracket if you have a moderate lift the rod may have enough threads to work per the FSM procedure. Or you can bend the rod itself as an alternative.

It was my experience that the lift bracket does work but you can't assume the LSPV was working right to start. I never really had much beef with the system and the bracket once I got everything flushed and set that LSPV rod correctly with the bracket in place.

My main issue with it is that it assumes you're on flat ground. As the axle articulates the LSPV gets cycled so your rear braking goes from zero to full on. I think also what can happen is if you have the brakes applied as you flex the rear brakes could get a mini line lock in back until the valve is opened again.

The problem here is you can't eliminate the LSPV because you do need to have some way to proportion the front/rear bias. You can do the inline valve to set it and it will work fine but in the case of a pickup where you might really have a wide range from very light bed to fully loaded using the suspension squat works as a pretty good way to adjust the bias compared to tweaking the knob on a valve. So I just left it and worked within the limitations. On an 80 or a dedicated 'crawler where the cargo and passengers are more predictable the LSPV is probably more trouble than it's worth, though.

If I were to have a rule of thumb it would be if you have fixed rate rear springs and rarely find yourself on the bump stops on the road you can punt the LSPV and do a valve.

If you have progressive rate springs, as in the case of a leaf pack with overloads for example, and use them fairly often then do the work to get the LSPV system functioning well.

Edit to add: I also need to point out that mini trucks and Tacos had drum brakes until 2024, so the LSPV isn't going to be touchy or obvious in operation. I personally like drum brakes from a utility standpoint and having a really good parking brake is a benefit. I imagine rear disk brakes plus a LSPV might be a step up in headache to find the Goldilocks setpoint.

There's also the question of how much the rear suspension articulates. On a leaf-sprung pickup you get much less stuff and droop compared to a coil sprung 80. So the region through which the LSPV rod moves the valve is smaller, when you set it it tends not to bang off extremes.
 
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IoN6

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On the 80's the LSPV also diverts some amount of brake pressure to the front brakes. I am assuming it is when the rear is "lighter". Way over complicated IMO. KISS.
 

DaveInDenver

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On the 80's the LSPV also diverts some amount of brake pressure to the front brakes. I am assuming it is when the rear is "lighter". Way over complicated IMO. KISS.
In that case the LSPV is going to be a real nightmare. I get your pain now. Kick that thing to the curb.
 

IoN6

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I was taken back with how many brake lines were under the 80 from the factory. The front setup with separate runs to L/R, the LSPV with a line that runs from the back to the front. Now that I am thinking about it, I wonder if an LSPV delete on the Tacoma will net "careful or you will bounce your head off the windshield" level of brakes like it did in the 80.

I eyeballed the arm and gave it a bend when I did the lift, but I feel that the rears are doing very little. Especially with the 'nest on there now.
 

J1000

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Yeah when I dissembled the LSPV I came to the conclusion that even when it's working correctly it still bypasses some rear brake pressure to the front.
 
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