3FE Pro?

[Chris]

So if you want to come by my shop it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to install one of these and test the injectors. If they test OK and the EGR isn't leaking, I'd say go ahead and drop the cabbage on new O2 sensors.

Thanks for the offer frontrange (nice screen name BTW)

I'm under the assumption the EGR is a sealed unit, right? The diaphragm shouldn't let air past or am I mistaken here? After replacing the intake I sprayed starting fluid to see if I had any leaks and if I spray anywhere near the EGR valve the rpm's increase considerably.

 

[frontrange]

Sounds like you got a cracked EGR diaphram. It should be sealed but after enough miles they fall apart. That's your first problem, it sounds like yours is in pieces.

 

[Chris]

Yes, sure does. Thanks for confirming that for me. It may be the key to the emissions failures. I'll check it out again and take it from there. Of course you've got me wondering about the injectors but first things first.

 

[frontrange]

Yeah I would still check the injectors just because I bought three different sets from three different sources and all of them were a mess when I bench tested them. I've never seen anything like that with Bosch or Rochester any other type of injector for that matter.

Now I suspect any Toyota injector (and I'm not a big fan of the rest of their FI system either as you may have noticed). My 2FE is a complete redo of the fuel delivery and a aftermarket ECU with a crank triggered ignition. I kept the Toyota injectors, but only because I had plenty and milling the hardware to use a Bosch was too much of a pain.

 

[Chris]

I would like to follow-up after I deal with the emissions if that's good with you. Thanks again for your help.

 

[frontrange]

Sure, no sweat. Good luck with the EGR.

 

[PabloCruise]

Yeah I would still check the injectors just because I bought three different sets from three different sources and all of them were a mess when I bench tested them. I've never seen anything like that with Bosch or Rochester any other type of injector for that matter.

Now I suspect any Toyota injector (and I'm not a big fan of the rest of their FI system either as you may have noticed). My 2FE is a complete redo of the fuel delivery and a aftermarket ECU with a crank triggered ignition. I kept the Toyota injectors, but only because I had plenty and milling the hardware to use a Bosch was too much of a pain.

Do you have a build thread anywhere?
I have a 3FE but am interested in aftermarket ECU that fires injectors sequentailly vs. the gang firing the stock ECU does...

Hijack over!

 

[frontrange]

No, no thread. I have to get this project done soon, so far all I have finished is the custom tank and fuel delivery, the custom rail setup and the Ford EDIS-6 conversion and the ECM completed and tested. I used a megasquirt controller. The engine still needs assembly, I only just got the 3D toolpath done and tested to eyebrow the cylinder walls to relieve the valves. Next I'm making a custom Hydraulic cam. Should be starting that soon.

You do know sequential fire will have zero impact on performance, right? All ECM's operate in bank fire mode once you are in the engine's powerband. Sequential operation is basically just a means to lean out the AFR during idle so you're not dumping unburned hydocarbons in to the atmosphere when stuck in traffic.

 

[corsair23]

Christo has a set of 3FE injectors for sale...

http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=13707

 

[PabloCruise]

You do know sequential fire will have zero impact on performance, right? All ECM's operate in bank fire mode once you are in the engine's powerband. Sequential operation is basically just a means to lean out the AFR during idle so you're not dumping unburned hydocarbons in to the atmosphere when stuck in traffic.

No, I did not know this.

Thank you.

I would still be interested in reading a build about your 3FE when you are finished.

Where are you located?

 

[frontrange]

No, I did not know this.

Thank you.

I would still be interested in reading a build about your 3FE when you are finished.

Where are you located?

Just south of Monument CO.

I'll take some pics when it's all back together, but it's a 2FE, not a 3FE, in other words a 2F with a hydraulic roller cam and the 3FE induction + aftermarket ECM.

 

[PabloCruise]

Just south of Monument CO.

I'll take some pics when it's all back together, but it's a 2FE, not a 3FE, in other words a 2F with a hydraulic roller cam and the 3FE induction + aftermarket ECM.

Got it. I would love to learn more about your build when you have time to post.

Esp. interested in how you produced a hydraulic cam, and got oil pressure to the lifters for this build!

 

[frontrange]

I digitized a SBC cam lobe profile to apply it to the 2F centerline timing taken off of a stock 2F cam. I will cut it on my 4 axis CNC mill, chuck the roughed cam between centers in the lathe and grind it with my toolpost grinder acting as a cam follower by using an air cylinder in place of the lathe's crosslide acme screw.

To get oil to SBC lifters I plan on making an oil manifold that will sit behind the lifter galley plate.

 

[Chris]

O 2 sensors tell the computer how lean or rich the exhaust stream is. So it effects too lean or too rich or just right(simple version). So if the O2 sensors are not working, it can lead to a lean condition which leads to NOX. If you have a Factory service manual and a old style VOM(swing meter style), you can check them out per the manual. If not and you do not have any idea of how many miles(but feel they could be a bunch) I would just replace them, it could also lead to better fuel ecomany.
Looking at your number you gave, it looks like you are running on the lean side of the fuel flow.
So If we look at those numbers, you need to make it run richer. So yes it could be injectors, but it could be the O2 sensors as well.
With similar number, I have seen good results with the O2 sensors. But testing them first before replacing is a wise choice.

But as the other suggest, the injectors or EGR could also effect NOX.

I thought I found the problem when finding my EGR diaphragm was leaking but it failed again with a new one. I think I'll just jump to 02 sensors as you suggested Robbie.

Thanks again.

 

[Chris]

Not the O2 sensors either - failed the 5th time today. It doesn't make sense to me but a guy on 'Mud said his NOx dropped to acceptable levels with a new t-stat so I threw one of those in for the heck of it. I'll see what the Air Care tech has to say Friday. Injectors?

I have to say the trucks running fine these days despite high NOx.

 

[PabloCruise]

What is your timing set to?

 

[PabloCruise]

Here's a possibility for you if you want to test the injectors. I while back I got annoyed with the lack of a standard pressure test port on the Toyota fuel rail, so I made a few of these:

Haven't tried one out yet, but it's simple enough it should work. It replaces the OEM banjo bolt (on the right) for the hard line that goes to the cold start valve with a new one that has the standard Chevy test fitting. With this I can use my Kent-Moore to do an injector balance test without pulling the rail and injectors out.

So if you want to come by my shop it shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to install one of these and test the injectors. If they test OK and the EGR isn't leaking, I'd say go ahead and drop the cabbage on new O2 sensors.

Has anyone seen an OEM banjo bolt replacement that is threaded in the top for a small fuel gauge? I think there is room under the hood to run a fuel pressure gauge off the banjo bolt for the cold start injector. That way you could just open the hood and check fuel pressure right there.

Kind of like this bolt for Honda banjo bolts at the fuel filter:

Who knows, maybe this fits? Is the 3FE banjo bolt a 12mmx1.25? You would need a fuel pressure gauge w/ 1/8" NPT thread.

 

[Air Randy]

Shoot a PM to RicardoJM on this site. There is an auto shop he uses in Englewood that works on old cruisers. They have their own emission testing gear so they can adjust it until it will pass, then they give it to you so you can go direct to the state testing station.

I've also heard (no first hand experience) that if you run a 50-50 mix of E85 and prem gas it will help you pass.

 

[Chris]

What is your timing set to?

Factory specs, I've been told the Air Care tech like everything set to factory specs.

Shoot a PM to RicardoJM on this site. There is an auto shop he uses in Englewood that works on old cruisers. They have their own emission testing gear so they can adjust it until it will pass, then they give it to you so you can go direct to the state testing station.

I've also heard (no first hand experience) that if you run a 50-50 mix of E85 and prem gas it will help you pass.

I'll guess it's the shop on Evans, I see lots of cruisers there. I really can't afford to pay someone to troubleshoot this right now. Yes, that may have been the best approach on day 1 but I had no idea I was heading down the path I'm on.

There are numerous variations of the E85 solution including drug store isopropyl, Heet, etc. I'm hoping to get to the bottom rather than sidestep the actual problem. I figure I'll end up with a damned great running 3FE when I'm done if that ever happens.

I'll swap you my truck for the Gecko Randy!

 

[RicardoJM]

Shoot a PM to RicardoJM on this site. There is an auto shop he uses in Englewood that works on old cruisers. They have their own emission testing gear so they can adjust it until it will pass, then they give it to you so you can go direct to the state testing station.

The shop is:
Colorado Car Clinic
5311 S Broadway, Littleton, CO.
Phone: 303-730-0055