Tacoma trim level questions

[DouglasVB]

Y'all must be getting sick of me asking about purchasing Tacomas but here we are...

I'm still hunting for a M/T Tacoma that isn't hugely marked up that could be a solution for us for the next ~5 years until an electric 4x4 is mature enough and catches my fancy.

I was thinking a TRD Off-Road trim level 3rd gen Taco would be a good solution because it's already got the e-locker in the rear. After a year or two, I might go to 33" tires. Or maybe I'd do something stupid and put long travel on it, re-gear, add a second t-case, and move up to 35" or bigger tires.

But Off-Road trim is about $5-7k more than Sport trim in my area both for new and used.

So I'm wondering what I'd be missing other than the e-locker if I went with the Sport trim. And how much would it be to have a shop install a locker?

I've talked with Ian (Wheel Every Weekend) in the past and his suggestion was finding a 2WD with minimal options because he'd add an Atlas transfer case and one ton axles. But that's probably outside of my budget for now

 

[DaveInDenver]

TRD Sport is mostly appearance. The mechanical difference is suspension is tuned as I understand to be firmer (I couldn't really tell in used test drives, I dunno). The TRD Offroad gets progressive springs along with the factory locker. Neither is some great revision of Toyota's vision of suspension so you'll eventually change it anyway. The Sport gets a purely aesthetic hood scoop.

A 2nd gen TRD OR gets the familiar electric locker that Toyota used for years. The 3rd gen locker is different and I would argue improved. They moved the actuator internal, which is a weakness of the older lockers as you know. It's vulnerable to damage and corrosion.

Also the axle is stronger. The 05-15 locked axle is a variation of the same 8" axle that goes back to 1979, for better or worse (Toyota calls it the BD20 in the Tacoma). The 16+ can be fitted with a stronger variant of the so-called 8.75" which Toyota calls the BD22. It's a better axle regardless of the locker. Prior to 2016 only open diff Tacomas got a 8.75" and with an Air Locker they are superior in every way IMO.

If it requires getting a Sport to find a stick then so be it. I originally just wanted a plain SR5 (which you could still get in stick in a 2nd gen but not in s 3rd gen). I ended up with a TRD OR because stick shift 2005+ are hard to find and the truck wasn't otherwise offensive or anything. But not much really remains to make it a TRD OR. Pretty much only the stickers at this point.

If I was buying new I'd go with a 4WD SR personally and would have to deal with an automatic. You can (or at least could) get an SR with the utility package in an Access Cab, which removes all the interior in back like jump seats and replaced with with plastic tool trays and blank, plain walls. That would be more useful to me and I'd do Air Lockers.

As far as 2WD -> Atlas and tons. Meh, if you want a crawler, get a mini truck to build. The Tacoma frame is a noodle compared to Hilux, so you'll need to essentially build it literally from the frame up to make it worthwhile. But if that's what you want then it can work. At least you wouldn't have to locate motor mounts for a V6 in the front subframe. Just have to replace everything else.

BTW, you should know the RA6x and RC6x six speeds in the Tacoma are kind of crap compared to the R, W and G series. They are stronger cases but otherwise shift worse and the clutch design is stupid. No pilot bearing and on the 05-15 Toyota screwed the pooch with an alloy extension that wore real quick under the release bearing, to the point I had to Speedi-Sleeve it at 90K since the groove worn into it prevented a smooth release.

 

[DouglasVB]

As far as 2WD -> Atlas and tons. Meh, if you want a crawler, get a mini truck to build.

Hah and I just sold mine

Even if I could have dropped all the money necessary to put a modern engine into it and go to tons and etc, the basic problem I finally realized with the mini trucks is I simply don't fit properly in them. Driving the 4runner a little bit with @jonathanLucy when we were doing paperwork reminded me how for whatever reason the mini truck ergonomics really give my legs problems. I had the same problem on my previous 4runner (with OEM Toyota seats versus the Honda Accord seats in the Rhino) as well.

BTW, you should know the RA6x and RC6x six speeds in the Tacoma are kind of crap compared to the R, W and G series. They are stronger cases but otherwise shift worse and the clutch design is stupid. No pilot bearing and on the 05-15 Toyota screwed the pooch with an alloy extension that wore real quick under the release bearing, to the point I had to Speedi-Sleeve it at 90K since the groove worn into it prevented a smooth release.

I remember you telling me about that before but I had forgotten. Thanks for the reminder. I think I'll cut off my search at 2016 then.

The 16+ can be fitted with a stronger variant of the so-called 8.75" which Toyota calls the BD22.

Do all 16+ Tacomas get that axle or is that something I have to look for specifically?

If I was buying new I'd go with a 4WD SR personally and would have to deal with an automatic.

Aside from heated seats and AC, I would be happy to ditch *all* of the other doodads. But if I'm losing the manual transmission then I need to go full electric. Can't bring myself to do it otherwise

 

[DaveInDenver]

Have you driven the newer Tacos? I had the 1991 and 2008 concurrent and honestly the Tacoma felt more claustrophobic and the sightlines are worse. The floor is still fairly tall, not quite as flat as the mini truck but not deep. I think they dropped the floor into slightly more of a pan on the 3rd gen but it's no F150.

I don't notice it anymore really, other than the huge A-pillar and that the rear view mirror is way too low. I don't have extensive saddle time in the 2016+ but my first response was the only thing they really fixed was the uber deep gauges on my generation.

Not sure on the axle but AFAIK it's more about the drivetrain and chassis. IOW a 2WD 4 cylinder Access Cab might still get the 8" while all 4WD Double Cab V6 get the 8.75". Or something like that.

 

[mcgaskins]

Regardless of whether you need the rear locker, keep in mind what will be easier to sell later and have higher resale value. Everyone wants the trims with a locker, so that is likely the better one to buy especially if you only plan to keep a few years. The parts for a selectable locker will be anywhere from $1500 to $2500 before install and "while you're in there stuff", and the resale value and appeal of a sport modded to have an aftermarket locker won't approach simply having a TRD Off Road trim. If you end up with a Sport trim, I'd just suggest either not modifying it all or simple stuff like tires only.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If past performance is an indication of future results it won't matter. When I looked for a stick shift even in 2015 a worn out one that still vaguely smelled of cigarettes commanded silly money.

 

[DouglasVB]

Have you driven the newer Tacos?

Yup I've driven several manual Tacos of the current generation. Not the best visibility but still better than an FJ Cruiser. I fit very well in them as long as there is no sunroof. Not quite as well as the new Bronco though

 

[AlpineAccess]

I owned a 2013 sr5 4dr AT and a 2017 TRD OR MT and both were just fine. I liked a lot about the 13. The 17 was anemic, the gearing had weird intervals, and if I put it at any kind of climbing angle I had blue smoke coming out of the exhaust couples with an oil alarm along with a long list of other odd things.

I think many of those issues were corrected but I was very unimpressed.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I owned a 2013 sr5 4dr AT and a 2017 TRD OR MT and both were just fine...The 17 was anemic, the gearing had weird intervals,

The interesting thing is that they actually improved the gear ratios in the 3rd gen stick shift. On my truck's 6 speed there's only one overdrive and 1st isn't that low. The RA60 was used in Camaros and some Cadillac models and I don't think they changed the gearing between them. It's like the MT was a big time after thought. The RC62 has two O/D and 4th is 1:1 like it should be, so sort of makes sense for a truck and not a road car.

 

[AlpineAccess]

The interesting thing is that they actually improved the gear ratios in the 3rd gen stick shift. On my truck's 6 speed there's only one overdrive and 1st isn't that low. The RA60 was used in Camaros and some Cadillac models and I don't think they changed the gearing between them. It's like the MT was a big time after thought. The RC62 has two O/D and 4th is 1:1 like it should be, so sort of makes sense for a truck and not a road car.

I definitely agree in it feeling like an afterthought. I didn't have the manual in the 2nd gen but have driven an FJ cruiser with the manual for a few days and actually liked it a lot.

The main thing for me is the 1GRFE had "around town, usable torque", like you'd get in a v-twin motorcycle. Just fun to drive and had grunt where you needed it. The 3.5 had to be wound up to get out of its own way. It didn't tow well unless pinned.

But again, I'd encourage anyone to drive one and come to their own conclusion. I just think Toyota had such an opportunity to continue the legacy and didn't

 

[DaveInDenver]

I definitely agree in it feeling like an afterthought. I didn't have the manual in the 2nd gen but have driven an FJ cruiser with the manual for a few days and actually liked it a lot.

The main thing for me is the 1GRFE had "around town, usable torque", like you'd get in a v-twin motorcycle. Just fun to drive and had grunt where you needed it. The 3.5 had to be wound up to get out of its own way. It didn't tow well unless pinned.

But again, I'd encourage anyone to drive one and come to their own conclusion. I just think Toyota had such an opportunity to continue the legacy and didn't

100% agree, the 1GR is a very good engine mated with a stick shift. I complain a lot about the old gal but I really like my Taco. I guess it's a grass-is-greener thing because I bet a Hilux with a 1GR + stick would be life changing. Like when a 5VZ is swapped into a mini truck but with decent A/C. And the suicide doors. Hell to the yeah.

One thing I've seen is the HP and torque curves of the two V6s are pretty similar but everyone (well almost everyone) loved the 1GR and everyone (well almost everyone) hates the 2GR in the Tacoma. Shrug.

 

[DouglasVB]

That's interesting about the 1GR vs 2GR. The 2GR equipped trucks I've test drove have all felt like rocket ships compared to my dearly departed mini truck

 

[DaveInDenver]

That's interesting about the 1GR vs 2GR. The 2GR equipped trucks I've test drove have all felt like rocket ships compared to my dearly departed mini truck

Yup. I went from my 1991 to the 2008. Matter of perspective I bet frames the impressions of a vehicle. I'm still happy that merging on the highway isn't a butt clinching, praying to our blessed Mother of acceleration experience!

 

[HDavis]

I know this is a Toyota club and we are all pretty loyal to the brand, but have you tried out the Frontier? We have had a 2012 pro 4x for 8 years and it's been a great truck. It has more power and torque than the 1gr and has been a trouble-free truck during our ownership. Ours has 86000 miles and I don't think we could get much more than $18k for it. If it were a Tacoma that number would be closer to $30k.

 

[riderjgs]

Asked a dealer friend about the difference between Nissan and Toyota when buying the used ‘93 4Runner my daughter once drove. His reply back then? $5,000.

 

[riderjgs]

Was also disappointed to find out the 3.0 engine had all of the gas mileage and none of the power of a Ford 460.