Repeater etiquette and the like...

[Groucho]

Just thought since we as a group are getting more active in using the repeaters, it might be nice to post up some etiquette and usefull hints to remember when on the air.


Repeater Hint #1:
When using a repeater, wait for the repeater to un-key before trying to transmit. On the linked Colorado Connection repeaters, this means waiting for the dah-di-dah (morse code "K") after each person transmits before keying up.

If this is not done, the repeater will not completely drop the linked signal, making the linked connection lost for a part, if not all of the next transmission. What this sounds like is:
To the folks using the same repeater (for example the Denver repeater):
Everyone on the Denver repeater will still hear each others transmissions because the repeater will act the same whether doing the UHF link or not.

Anyone outside of the Denver repeater will hear dead air (but it will sound like someone is keying the repeater). This is due to the UHF link between repeaters has not been properly dropped, and therefore not working. This may cause trouble such as broken links and down repeaters if done over and over.

On other, non linked repeaters, wait till the repeater drops and then key up. This is usually when a squelch tail is heard. For those who don't know what a squelch tail sounds like, just think of the noise you make with your mouth when mimiking the end of a transmission on your make-believe walkie talkies. Roger that, podacter! Over and out! Cheeerrrccchhh!← That is the squelch tail.

On a repeater that is using the IRLP linking system, the same applies. WAIT until the repeater drops completely before making another transmission. It may not be necessary to do this to ensure the connection on the IRLP is working, but it is good etiquette.

Repeater hint #2:

Listen.

Listen.

Listen, then Listen again.

All the help one needs is there if one just listens. Repeaters all have their own lingo, their own code. If someone new to the repeater will stop and listen, all of this will become evident. We have a strong police-ourselves atmosphere. If someone new does something incorectly, regulars will help correct. If someone who is corrected keeps doing the same bad habit over and over, everyone will ignore that person. So listen. Then talk.

Repeater hint #3:
Keep your transmissions short and to the point. Worse case, you may be causing an emergency to lose critical time. Best case, you time-out the repeater, then everyone knows you're a windbag, or WØRDY.
Don't try to think what you are going to say during your transmission. Take the few seconds to gather your thoughts and then go at it. It will sound more like we know what we are talking about.

Lets keep this going. Everyone here has earned the right to be able to put something in this thread. You are HAMs. Keep things going so that we all get to enjoy this facet of our wheeling hobby. Post a hint up. Read your repeater directory notes (in the front or back of the ARRL repeater directory). Tell me something I haven't heard before.

 

[Hulk]

Hey! Ummm....

Guess that's what I get for choosing that call sign.

 

[Red_Chili]

I appreciate the nudges!

 

[Groucho]

More etiquette...

The U.S. is divided into 10 sections. Colorado happens to fall into what is affectionately called "zero-land". Hence the Ø in our callsigns. See the map for others.

Now, our number designation being said as an "O" all to often in speech today, makes it easy to use that habit in HAM radio. Don't get into that habit! Zero an "oh" will either alert people to your inexperience or your illegal use of the bands with a stolen call.

Make sure you use "Zero" for Ø. Look at the map and see where people are.

 

[wesintl]

Doesn't that kinda go out the window with vanity signs? I have a bad habit of using a o for a Ø but I thought I did pretty well this weekend even though we were on simplex.

 

[Convert]

So is it acceptable to use the last three letters in a call sign ?

Like this :
Dan- KC0ZBI.....K0VRT
Ben- go... Dan
Dan- blah... blah...blah
Ben- blah... blah... blah
Dan - K0VRT.. for id
Ben KC0ZBI.. for id
Silence for a few minutes
Dan - ZBI... left at the stop sign ?

 

[Groucho]

Doesn't that kinda go out the window with vanity signs? I have a bad habit of using a o for a Ø but I thought I did pretty well this weekend even though we were on simplex.

Negative, ghost rider. A Ø is a Ø is a Ø. Mostly I heard folks trying to remember callsigns and saying "oh" instead of zero. It is just good operating practice to say "Zero". Vanity calls follow the same protocol as FCC computer issued calls.
The ITU designates some countries callsign prefixes with an "O" before the number. If you are a club callsign in Cuba, your call begins with COØ... The point being that you will not hear an amateur station saying "this is Charlie oh oh".

So is it acceptable to use the last three letters in a call sign ?

Like this :
Dan- KC0ZBI.....K0VRT
Ben- go... Dan
Dan- blah... blah...blah
Ben- blah... blah... blah
Dan - K0VRT.. for id
Ben KC0ZBI.. for id
Silence for a few minutes
Dan - ZBI... left at the stop sign ?

Good example, except for the -ZBI. Just use the persons first name if you know it. It all applies the same for any radio station/tv station. Listen to your favorit radio station. You will hear their call letters every 10 minutes, or just before. It is amazing that something we really didn't pay any attention to has been there all along.

In our case, we need to pay more attention to how long we are transmitting between giving our full call. There is really no need to be as frequent as we were. I do it to help get others in practice. When we all remember to do this, ten minutes (or when you are done in the conversation) seems like a long time. So long in fact that when you get good you wonder how long its been since you last gave your callsign. Up untill the 10 minute timeframe, comms on 2M can seem very similar to CB, with first names used if we all know each other. If someone breaks in, they should break in by giving their callsign and when aknowledged can follow everyone elses lead.

Contest stations loathe stations calling who say "ZBI". Because it adds another transmission to what may already be a fast contest pace. Then the station calling QRZ will have to interject and say "the ZBI station what is your call?" instead of saying "KCØZBI you're 5-9 from Cuba".


This leads into the next piece of good practice which is handing off the conversation to the next operator. This mainly helps prevent doubling up. It is also helpful just to give that extra second between transmissions to allow for breaks. Most of us on the repeaters have heard the "Check for double..." followed by the operator unkeying to make sure that someone else didn't key up. It is helpful so that time is not lost listening to the squeal of two stations transmitting at once.

 

[wesintl]

Negative, ghost rider. A Ø is a Ø is a Ø. Mostly I heard folks trying to remember callsigns and saying "oh" instead of zero. It is just good operating practice to say "Zero". Vanity calls follow the same protocol as FCC computer issued calls.
The ITU designates some countries callsign prefixes with an "O" before the number. If you are a club callsign in Cuba, your call begins with COØ... The point being that you will not hear an amateur station saying "this is Charlie oh oh".

no. I know a zero is a zero. What I mean is... if I live in colorado which is Ø and I want a vanity I could be K4FDE even though it's not part of the state which I live in that is designated. Does the FCC allow that or not? All i'm saying is that you can't necessarily tell where people are from with a vanity.

 

[Hulk]

Wes, that's correct, you can select a call that is outside your region when you do a vanity. When I searched for mine, I limited myself to looking only at Ø signs to stay regionally correct, although I did switch from K to W.

 

[Groucho]

Another new note, maybe worthless to some..

If you are outside of your number designated area, it is practice to announce such. For instance, in Moab, we are technically in 7-land. Practice says we are supposed to give our callsign something like this:
KCØPEG mobile 7, this is WØIIN mobile 7

Now, that may seem like a big nuisance, but it is practice. Remember, some amateurs look for those times when long range communications happen. So if all of a sudden a guy in western Utah hears a station from Colorado on simplex, he starts to pee his pants that the band has opened up for long range comms and runs to get as many contacts as he can before the window closes. Imagine how sad he will be when he learns later that you are just driving through his town.

It is not necessary, but it is considered courteous to announce the fact that you are mobile or portable when you are outside your area.

 

[subzali]

thank you Nathaniel, that's good to know! I had a QSO with a fella out in Blanding on the way to the overnight run last year (although we got in touch through the repeater, not simplex), and it's good to know the proper way of doing this!

 

[daveIT]

Thanks, great info/reminders for newbies like me! Is there a repeater you guys hang out on or a net you guys check into? I jumped on the Colo Connection repeater on 145.130 (KB0VJJ) on Thursday at 1930 where they hold a weekly one.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thanks, great info/reminders for newbies like me! Is there a repeater you guys hang out on or a net you guys check into? I jumped on the Colo Connection repeater on 145.130 (KB0VJJ) on Thursday at 1930 where they hold a weekly one.

The truck radio generally sits on 2-of-these-3: 147.225, 145.310 or 146.460. The 147.225 repeater is pretty active during commutes, so if nothing's happen on 145.310/146.460, I usually go to 145.310/147.225. I heard you on the Thursday night central Colorado NTS net, but the net was just closing when I tuned in. A lot of check-ins, 27 I think, so didn't think he'd need any more.

 

[DaveInDenver]

BTW, I should note that the 147.225 is linked to 145.460 in Boulder and once again to 145.160 in the Springs. The 145.310 is the Denver CCR machine.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

similar to me

The truck radio generally sits on 2-of-these-3: 147.225, 145.310 or 146.460. The 147.225 repeater is pretty active during commutes, so if nothing's happen on 145.310/146.460, I usually go to 145.310/147.225. I heard you on the Thursday night central Colorado NTS net, but the net was just closing when I tuned in. A lot of check-ins, 27 I think, so didn't think he'd need any more.

I have the same habits...and will randomly check out 145.280, 145.145 (another CRA) and 145.430 and when around home the boulder repeaters. However, where I am in louisville, I hit the .225 repeater better than the 145.460 repeater.

 

[daveIT]

Few questions...

1) I've been monitoring 145.130 a bit and noticed many folks don't say their call phonetically when the check in and say "listening." It's hard for me to understand them a lot of times. What's the proper way to ask them to repeat it phonetically?

2) I jumped on 147.225 this morning and it sounded like a newscast playing (some kind of amateur radio news)...I thought broadcasting stuff wasn't allowed.

3) When someone says clear does that usually indicate they are hopping off the freq or are they just done xmitting?

I'll get the lingo down eventually...just trying to listen as much as I can for now.

 

[nakman]

1. Just ask! completely appropriate to say "Hey this is K0NAK, didn't quite catch the call can you repeat that please?"

2. Some nets almost sound broadcast, but it's just dudes on the radio.. you could still break in technically. I've heard that one too, with the for sale section towards the end?

3. Usually means they're hopping off.. if sticking around but just done transmitting I'd usually say "monitoring," or to really geek out I'd say "K0NAK clear, but continuing to monitor."

and here's some CB etiquette for you to brush up on..

 

[DaveInDenver]

2. Some nets almost sound broadcast, but it's just dudes on the radio.. you could still break in technically. I've heard that one too, with the for sale section towards the end?

He's talking about the CRA retransmitting the Amateur News Line in the middle of their Sunday morning club net. They do a swap meet I think at the end and club messages before.

http://www.arnewsline.org/

This is not really a broadcast, but a retransmission. It's absolutely correct that broadcasting is not allowed, which is the origination of a signal that you have no expectation of reply. Technically an APRS beacon is marginal IMHO, but it's a convention that it's an OK exception.

In this case the repeater is retransmitting a message and is a special case, like Space Shuttle audio (was) or official messages. Also with the repeater you can talk over the News Line and NASA audio, it does not cause the repeater to stop being a ham repeater.

 

[daveIT]

Thanks guy...I feel like such a n00b. I hate that, but I gotta start somewhere!

So with simplex are there CTSS/PL codes or is that just a repeater thing?


Thanks & yee haw sumbitch pile of monkey nuts!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thanks guy...I feel like such a n00b. I hate that, but I gotta start somewhere!

So with simplex are there CTSS/PL codes or is that just a repeater thing?


Thanks & yee haw sumbitch pile of monkey nuts!

You can use tones with simplex if you wish, but remember that it does not keep the communication private just that the radios with tones on will only open their squelch with the right tone. Everyone on the frequency will hear you TX if they don't use sub tones.

Repeaters use them to keep from getting spurious signals and interference, they reject everything without the right sub tone and most of them also add a sub tone so that you can do the same on your radio if interference is a problem.

BTW, it is against FCC rules to use something that obscures your signal, e.g. coded messages. You can encode messages for efficiency, e.g. spread spectrum, JT65, PSK31. These are open, clearly decoded and non-cipher. There is an exception to this, that being signal sent to an amateur satellite, which may be a cipher in nature so that control commands are not intercepted, which would be bad if an unapproved station could take control of a space vehicle.

What I think you are looking for is FCC rules, Part 97.113 and 97.211.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur