Who owns your car?

[3rdGen4R]

Ford is saying you can’t sell you F150 truck for a year after you buy it? The right to owndership is real issue… and whlie I’m sure people will justify the actions here because they won’t want to see people buy a truck and resell it on the used market, I don’t think it’s anyones business what you are doing with your money if it’s legal. I really hope consumers will start asking questions about the rights they are giving away for some of these new electronic EV cars.

https://fordauthority.com/2022/01/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-will-come-with-one-year-no-sale-provision/

 

[Romer]

I am guessing they put that in to prevent people from flipping it to make money right away. Not saying I agree

 

[3rdGen4R]

I am guessing they put that in to prevent people from flipping it to make money right away. Not saying I agree

Probably.

 

[J Kimmel]

It’s happened quite a few times in the past, usually with exotics. Time will tell if it actually matters or not. I’m guessing they’re doing this because despite committing to doubling first year production estimates they’re easily sold out for 3 years on the lightening.

 

[Hulk]

Kind of a misleading subject line for the thread, isn't it? This isn't an ownership issue; it's prevention of scalping.

 

[Corbet]

That’s BS IMHO. Simple supply and demand. If someone is will to pay a premium then so be it.

 

[MountainGoat]

Kind of a misleading subject line for the thread, isn't it? This isn't an ownership issue; it's prevention of scalping.

I don't think so Matt. It is an ownership issue by legal definition:

ownership​

n. legal title coupled with exclusive legal right to possession. Co-ownership, however, means that more than one person has a legal interest in the same thing.

ownership​

the full and complete right of dominion over property. It has been said that ownership is either so simple as to need no explanation or so elusive as to defy definition. At its most extreme and absolute, it means the power to enjoy and dispose of things absolutely.



And yes, it is BS in my opinion as well. Even though most people won't actually own the vehicle for 5 or more years after purchase (financing), the whole approach seems like an infringement on a fundamental right.

 

[DouglasVB]

If you really want to get mad, read about John Deere and what they've been up to.

 

[J1000]

Ford sued John Cena for selling his Ford GT against the contract. I didn't pay attention to what the outcome was but it must have been good for Ford.

 

[damon]

Ford sued John Cena for selling his Ford GT against the contract. I didn't pay attention to what the outcome was but it must have been good for Ford.

settled for an "undisclosed amount"

 

[RayRay27]

Toyota is trying to do the same thing with the new Land Cruiser 300

Toyota Wants To Stop Owners Reselling The New Land Cruiser

Shortly after being launched, the new Toyota Land Cruiser began doing duty as part of Dubai's police fleet, and why not? We can't think of many vehicles that are better suited to protect and serve than the new Land Cruiser with its butch looks, solidity, and go-anywhere capability. However, not...

carbuzz.com

 

[BritKLR]

FWIW. Ford has a history of contractually controlling resale of some vehicles. in the 90's they limited the resale of personal purchase SSP vehicles (Mustangs, Crown Vic's, SVO Taurus, etc...) for a year. There was several who ended up in court over reselling them too soon. Ouch.....

 

[AlpineAccess]

I think Ford is trying to solve a problem they don't have yet, but maybe they are going to have a major issue with manufacturing these things.

Dealers have been scalping people for decades with fees on top of MSRP's with "high demand" vehicles. If Ford is going to push tighter pricing adherence at dealerships on these new trucks, they are really going to strain relationships. That on the heels of 2021 where Ford wasn't able to get cars and trucks to dealerships ready for sale and dealerships had to scramble to buy and flip used vehicles.

I think if you buy anything and it goes up in value you should be able to sell the thing whenever you please. It was your money and is now your asset. If Ford can't make them fast enough to cover demand they should price them higher. I imagine this deposit program is screwing them up because they have to sell you the vehicle at the price you put your deposit in at, so it's on them.

 

[gungriffin]

Mercedes makes you sign an agreement not to export their vehicles. If you do, you can be permanently banned from buying most models of MBs. The only reason for this is that most MBs sell for 20-100% more in foreign markets like China. Most of this is pretty standard stuff and it has been for a while. Many Porsche dealers will require you to trade in an older GT3 they sold you to get a new GT3 allocation at or close to sticker.

I would say that under this agreement the buyer still own the car, but they agree not to sell. No one holding a gun to their head when the buyer enters into the agreement. This is free market capitalist at it's best. A buyer and a seller coming to an agreement with no coercion for an item in high demand and low supply. This is done for the purpose of allowing people who actually want the car to obtain it. The alternative is seeing a ton of these vehicles on BAT at a MUCH higher price once the flippers get them. People would still probably figure out how to be pissed at Ford if that happened.

 

[gungriffin]

I think Ford is trying to solve a problem they don't have yet, but maybe they are going to have a major issue with manufacturing these things.

Dealers have been scalping people for decades with fees on top of MSRP's with "high demand" vehicles. If Ford is going to push tighter pricing adherence at dealerships on these new trucks, they are really going to strain relationships. That on the heels of 2021 where Ford wasn't able to get cars and trucks to dealerships ready for sale and dealerships had to scramble to buy and flip used vehicles.

I think if you buy anything and it goes up in value you should be able to sell the thing whenever you please. It was your money and is now your asset. If Ford can't make them fast enough to cover demand they should price them higher. I imagine this deposit program is screwing them up because they have to sell you the vehicle at the price you put your deposit in at, so it's on them.

From what I have been reading, Ford dealerships don't have an obligation to sell you the car at sticker based on a reservation deposit. That has really been causing some issues.

 

[MountainGoat]

Mercedes makes you sign an agreement not to export their vehicles. If you do, you can be permanently banned from buying most models of MBs. The only reason for this is that most MBs sell for 20-100% more in foreign markets like China. Most of this is pretty standard stuff and it has been for a while. Many Porsche dealers will require you to trade in an older GT3 they sold you to get a new GT3 allocation at or close to sticker.

I would say that under this agreement the buyer still own the car, but they agree not to sell. No one holding a gun to their head when the buyer enters into the agreement. This is free market capitalist at it's best. A buyer and a seller coming to an agreement with no coercion for an item in high demand and low supply. This is done for the purpose of allowing people who actually want the car to obtain it. The alternative is seeing a ton of these vehicles on BAT at a MUCH higher price once the flippers get them. People would still probably figure out how to be pissed at Ford if that happened.

Good point Ryan.

 

[Cruisertrash]

I agree that you ought to be able to sell something you legally own if you so choose and this is a shit move by Ford, but to play devil's advocate Ford owns the vehicle they are selling you and as owner they are free to sell it under whatever contractual conditions they want. If Ford said "so long as you own this vehicle you are not allowed to own any pet kangaroos" or something silly like that. I'm a strong advocate for right-to-repair and that extends to this kind of thing - "right to sell" I'll call it.

It also seems counterintuitive because if the resale market on the Lightning, for example, were to skyrocket then that's to Ford's advantage. MSRP will be under the resale market and they can sell the shit out of vehicles themselves. Granted there's a supply issue here, but they could have another production facility on backup and engage it when the resale market spikes, undercutting all the used trucks and selling a glut of vehicles on hype.

Even worse than this, I think, is the industry-wide move towards subscription services. That stuff sickens me and makes me glad I daily drive a 60. Toyota can NEVER shut off my carburetor from a satellite [shakes fist at sky].

 

[SteveH]

Even worse than this, I think, is the industry-wide move towards subscription services. That stuff sickens me and makes me glad I daily drive a 60. Toyota can NEVER shut off my carburetor from a satellite [shakes fist at sky].

In the future (and maybe now), the mfg. can just brick your car until you do what they want. Kinda like IT departments do with your laptop ;-)

 

[Inukshuk]

anti-speculation mechanisms, whether private or governmental, have been effective forces for allowing regular people to buy regular things and not be forced out by speculators for a long time in many ways in many societies. Speculators drive up prices and frequently fail to follow-though on purchases when market conditions change. Then markets crash.
When there is a natural disaster most people are against price gouging. The Ford policy is simply a different flavor of market regulation/stabilization. Some people like HOA's, other don't. But go try to buy a house that is not subject to regulatory forces and you *might* get away with a shack in the desert. Even then only until they find you.

 

[AlpineAccess]

From what I have been reading, Ford dealerships don't have an obligation to sell you the car at sticker based on a reservation deposit. That has really been causing some issues.

Oh man! That would be rough to find out on the backend of a deposit where they've had your money for months/years.