What went wrong?

[Corbet]

I stumbled across this on youtube today and though I would post it for discussion. Its not a terribly hard obstacle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX6Zov-FFI4&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLE8450DE73FB28854

But things went wrong very fast. Discussion on how to avoid this and then what to do after.

Recovery video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S-zYgCfB-s&feature=related

 

[Uncle Ben]

His skill set was the biggest issue! He had already made it up the toughest part of the Golden Stairs. This is a good post Corbet because it shows a very common mistake, he was done and thought he was in the clear. He got aggressive in celebration and that's when things went south!
On the recovery. Another very easy to make mistake took place. The strap on the pulling winch needed to be attached to the passenger side and wrapped over the roof so when the winch was pulling it would roll the vehicle rather than slide it towards the winch.

They did a lot of things correctly! I was expecting the Xterra to take off in reverse when it landed on the wheels. That is sooooooo common and easy of a mistake to do....not making sure the vehicle is in gear or in Park.

 

[84cruzer]

Seems like he has no lockers or they are not engaged? And gets a little happy with the skinny pedal. When the trail leader or spotter noticed him getting out perhaps he should have been offered a strap and a small tug. No shame in getting through a tough trail with your rig in one piece.

 

[corsair23]

The description states the front was locked

I just watched it again and the guy getting back in the rig and rolls it is not the same guy who seems to be claiming the rig as his (the guy with the white tshirt kneeling by the truck with sandals on) towards the end but it is hard to tell who is talking etc.

 

[wesintl]

he puts his hand out the window

 

[corsair23]

he puts his hand out the window

According to the description, those were his feet - something about the fact that he couldn't get his seatbelt reconnected...

 

[Corbet]

I posted it as its a good example of an inexperienced driver in Moab. Something we get a fair share of every year and that's great. But we as trail leaders need to ID them and do our jobs to prevent events like this to the best of our abilities. What always amazes me is how fast it happens on the high traction slickrock surfaces. I also think the recovery was pretty good. As Kevin pointed out could have been better.

 

[84cruzer]

Another example of how fast things can go wrong....

And it is such a clean old CJ too.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y7kAu6JlsU

 

[rover67]

And it is such a clean old CJ too.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y7kAu6JlsU

she hit her head.

 

[84cruzer]

she hit her head.

"Agreed" that little vanity roll bar did little to nothing to keep them safe.

 

[Inukshuk]

Excessive speed does seem the common denominator. Crawling up you *should* (but not always) be able to sense tippy and back it down.

The way the bounce I also wonder about tire pressure.

Or maybe they just wanted to be on youTube?

 

[Uncle Ben]

That last one could have had a Cruiser grill and looked exactly like a stock geared 40 doing the same thing!

 

[AxleIke]

Obviously it is hard to tell everything that is going on, as we are just seeing a video. However, in both cases the issue is lack of experience. They should never have been on the throttle that long. Moab has way too much traction to be able to hammer down and hold it in a stockish vehicle.

The issue is that the tires WILL hook up, and being on it that hard means that you are going to keep moving no matter what. A small bump is what was needed to get the trucks moving, but then you have to let off and slow it down. If not, you start bouncing like they did and then you have lost control of the vehicle.

Obviously this really only applies to novice drivers in full body trucks. If you drive a rock rod designed for hammer down driving, completely different rules apply.

 

[farnhamstj]

How can we prevent this kind of thing from happening at Cruise Moab?

Create an environment where is is OK to ask questions or for help.
Don't be afraid to tell people NO.
Discuss with group importance of squaring up to obstacles.
Discuss philosophy of Slow as possible Fast as necessary.
Talk about the one bounce rule.
Have less experienced drivers follow more experienced drivers.
Talk about what do if you feel you are about to roll.
Listen to your Gut.

As for the kid in the back on Potato salad hill, was it necessary to have passangers during the optional obstacle?

Thursday is an especially difficult day. It may include more spotting than normal. It will be many drivers 1st time in Moab (off-road?) be aware and sensitive to this.

 

[Air Randy]

First off regarding the green jeep, they were not on the correct line for that obstacle for a swb vehicle. Whether she would have gone fast or slow the out come would have been the same if she continued. If she had crawled it (tough to do with stock gearing) she could have stopped and then backed down. The correct line in that spot is actually several feet farther over to the drivers side. By getting further over you miss that big hole that the passenger rear drops into which causes the roll.

So knowing the obstacle, the long and short wheelbase lines, etc helps a lot.

 

[Uncle Ben]

First off regarding the green jeep, they were not on the correct line for that obstacle for a swb vehicle. Whether she would have gone fast or slow the out come would have been the same if she continued. If she had crawled it (tough to do with stock gearing) she could have stopped and then backed down. The correct line in that spot is actually several feet farther over to the drivers side. By getting further over you miss that big hole that the passenger rear drops into which causes the roll.

So knowing the obstacle, the long and short wheelbase lines, etc helps a lot.

Randy speaks word of great wit! Another problem that is very common on the trail is spotter macho-ism. If a guy spotting only has experience in short wheel base or long wheelbase vehicles he must yield to someone with more experience for the vehicle that's doing the obstacle! It's a tough thing to do.