Taco is stiff as a board

[dehru]

2017 Tacoma OR, Eibach Stage 1 lift ( 2” ), SPC UCA, Stock LCA.

Hey everyone, I noticed on the trail yesterday that when doing the typical “front wheel on a rock” pose, my Taco does not flex like other rigs.

If I get that front wheel up about 1 ft then the rear wheel comes up too. Yet there is plenty of room in my front wheel well for that tire to fit up in there.

Suspecting that I’m hitting my front bump stops, I just jacked up my front wheel with a bottle jack on the LCA. But surprisingly, I got the front wheel up off the ground by 6 inches and still, my LCA wasn’t even close to my front bump stops. I’m not sure it was a millimeter closer even.

I’m wondering if anyone has thoughts, knowledge to share, suggestions. Or how much this really matters.

Attaching some pictures. And a link to my Eibach lift kit which I’ve run almost 3 years.

Be gentle, I’m still ignorant of a lot of things!

 

[DaveInDenver]

The photo jacking up one wheel in the driveway isn't that surprising. You need some travel for dynamics otherwise you'd be bottoming out all the time. Not to mention the force from the jack is moved in a few inches from the tire and you've reduced the moment.

But try disconnecting the sway bar and seeing. That will help with the crossed up situation. A lot of people remove them permanently, that's a personal decision.

You may be slightly oversprung in front from the rock picture. Do you know the spring rate on your coils?

IFS only has so much to give so don't expect miracles. None of your photos look that odd for our trucks. Does it ride stiff? When you're on the trail does the front end track OK? Suspension tuning on a daily driven truck is kind of a battle of compromises.

 

[dehru]

Thanks for the response. Its got a 717 Pounds spring rate. And looks like my shocks have 3 settings and I’m in the lowest ( standard ) setting.

I *think* the ride is a bit stiffer than stock. But I’ve not found it bad or hard to control. And I’ve been able to do about any trail I wanted to here in Colorado / Moab.

I’ll try to experiment with the sway bar.

 

[DomOfTheDead]

As Dave said, these trucks don't have a lot of travel up front due to the design of the IFS. IFS can have a ton of travel if engineered to do so but that isn't part of the design parameters that Toyota set up in these trucks. I run about 2.5" of lift with 700 coils and pulled my front sway bar off. It helped with off road wheel travel but I stick to posted speed limits or below when cornering on the road. I have always run my trucks without front sway bars so I am used to the handling quirks but if someone isn't that familiar with it, it can come as a unwelcome surprise.
IMO, these trucks will make you a better driver than something with a ton of wheel travel as it all comes down to driver skill and proper line choices are the key to success.

 

[dehru]

I see they make some quick disconnects. It sounds like something I should experiment with before making a permanent decision or even installing quick disconnects.

I’ll do that this summer thanks to your advice.

I had no major trouble keeping up with the better built rigs last spring on most of the moderate Cruise Moab runs. ( with special thanks to my armor and skids ).

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

[DaveInDenver]

You can remove the sway bar links pretty easily, it's something that's worth experimenting with. Off pavement there's no reason for the sway bar IMO. On the highway I'll just say the handling is different. I would never run a stock truck without a sway bar but modified suspension changes things. You *will* get more body lean without one, no question.

BTW, my question about off highway was more trying to determine if it tends to dive a lot off road or alternatively seem like it's really stiff and bouncing rather than the wheels following the trail and walking up stuff.

As I understand 717 lb/in is what your truck was stock. But that was a shorter length spring. OTOH you have added some weight with the bumper and winch. So you may just be seeing the effect of stiff/longer springs and higher ride height. The downside of lifting an IFS truck without changing the suspension geometry (e.g. longer arms or lower the lower cross member) is that you skew the travel window and ride characteristics. You may actually need to go *down* in rate with longer springs to achieve a desired ride characteristic, particularly in the initial travel when the effective arm is shorter. LIfting a truck opens a huge can of worms of issues to solve.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Just thinking, you might benefit quite a bit by driving other member's Tacomas and 4Runners, both stock and built. Especially when you're new to the hobby you don't really have a range of experiences to judge and Internet wisdom (present thread of course excluded) is really not that wise. There's nothing like driving someone else's truck to know what you're missing out on or to reinforce that you've nailed the tune on your truck.

 

[Burt88]

Do you have wieght in the back? Most of these kits were made to support more weight while providing a lift and have a stiffer spring rate. Since you already have a bumper and winch up front, throw a few hundred pounds in the back and see what happens

 

[dehru]

@DaveInDenver - Great idea. However, i may get even worse build envy.
@Burt88 - I have nothing in the back. Now that you mention it, loaded up with camping gear and kids it does seem to smooth the ride. I'll pay closer attention to that this summer.

 

[dehru]

I'm reminded of this comment from @rushthezeppelin from last month.


View: https://youtu.be/l1tTelhdEiM

 

[DaveInDenver]

That video is really good for stepping through the basic things you're balancing in modifying your IFS. I've mentioned it elsewhere I'm pretty sure but I didn't want as much front lift as I have but I was trying to match what I needed in the back to carry the payload. So I did what I could by increasing shock travel. As it is I still missed the mark, I'm about 50 lb/in over sprung (and maybe more now that I've punted dual batteries) in front and still need to redo the damping in my shocks. When I get time to address it my plan for Mk3 of front end is 600 lb/in rate, 14" long springs and backing off on compression damping and lighter weight oil. It's never ending!

I like to show this. The old truck I'd gone just about to the limit before breaking too many CV axles and ball joints. At some point you just have to throw in the towel, either cut off and go long travel IFS or do a solid axle swap.

 

[dehru]

I just did a quick driveway test and I have 3.5" of droop and just about 1" of compression ( though this test might not have gotten FULL compression, it was close. ). But as preliminary results, that's only 4.5 inches. I think what startles me is the lack of compression. It's a full 1.5 inches less than even stock in the video above.

I will find a nice fat rock this weekend and redo that compression test.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you watch and listen to that video carefully with respect to spring rate, spring length, pre-load and how they relate to static ride height and dynamic travel.

Also don't get too wrapped up with RTI numbers. First thing is you still have your sway bar on. Second a truck that can use all of its travel on an RTI ramp would likely be very dangerous on the highway. It's one aspect of suspension tuning, which you might weight more or less depending on your end goal.

If your use is 90% pavement and 10% dirt roads then a truck with ideal suspension would actually probably RTI worse than even stock. But it would handle washboard and dips at speed better, which is why it would seem sprung and damped stiff in a way it might RTI poorly.

There isn't one "perfect" build necessarily. That's why I keep asking if *you* feel it's working for you.

 

[dehru]

I think it’s working for me. I had a blast on Elephant Hill. Imogene. TOTW. I’m looking forward to this summer!

I will take your advice and hopefully get a chance to drive some other Tacoma’s soon.

And mess around with the sway bar close to home here on Johnny Park and Pole Hill.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I’m looking forward to this summer!

*That* is the key.

 

[Cruisertrash]

@DaveInDenver You mentioned a solid axle swap above … even us front solid axle folks are forever tweaking the system. I’m looking at possibly moving my shackle mounts or going with custom longer springs to put the geometry of my shackle reversed 60 right at the midway point between droop and stuff - looking for more usable articulation immediately off of the static resting position rather than maximum travel. And then I need to figure out shocks that can accommodate that in the front as well as shocks that can handle the range of motion of my 6” shackles in the rear. Oh, and don’t forget about leaf thickness versus arch versus number of leaves. And I’m 90% road, 10% trail so where do I want the compromises to be?

I’m reinforcing your point: it’s all a never ending quest for the best balance for each of us.

Did my old Tacoma 3-wheel more than my 60? Absolutely. Was it still a lot of fun? Hell yes.

 

[dehru]

My 3 wheeler. Makes for a cool photo.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

My 3 wheeler. Makes for a cool photo.

She obviously just wants some belly scratches lol