Safari Turbo Destruction/Rebuild

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
8,580
Location
Boulder, Co
Did you do a compression or leak down test?
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO

nakman

Club Secretary
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
13,048
Location
north side
Can't really add a ton of tech value here Matt, but those pictures are really nice! do you think that gunk in cylinders 1 and 6 is relatively new? Or really old? It's odd that you don't see matching gunk on the spark plugs... which might imply that the gunk's been in there a while, longer than those spark plugs? :confuse2:
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
Can't really add a ton of tech value here Matt, but those pictures are really nice! do you think that gunk in cylinders 1 and 6 is relatively new? Or really old? It's odd that you don't see matching gunk on the spark plugs... which might imply that the gunk's been in there a while, longer than those spark plugs? :confuse2:
:dunno:
 

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
8,580
Location
Boulder, Co
well, totally curios on a leak down or compression test. i have a leak down tester if yawanna borrow it.

just curious whats up the the black streaks on the valves.
 

60wag

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,331
Safari recommends NGK BCPR7ES-11, which I understand are a Saab turbo application.
That part number looks familiar.

Are there bits of the turbo impeller on the top of #1 and #6 pistons? I'd want to be sure all of that was cleaned out before running the engine again.
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
That part number looks familiar.

Are there bits of the turbo impeller on the top of #1 and #6 pistons? I'd want to be sure all of that was cleaned out before running the engine again.
That's a good point, when ATP tears it down hopefully they can identify whether the compressor is missing any pieces. It seemed to me the compressor was ok but it was the turbine side that was worn, so I don't expect pieces of the turbo to be in the engine. But can check again.
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
Update: manifolds are welded, will receive them back on Saturday.

ATP Turbo got back to me:
FINDING:
Customer has *CUSTOM* turbo combo with:
1. Custom T3 Internal W/G turbine hsg. approx .82 A/R with special 5-bolt exit.
2. Custom compressor housing with special 2 bolt mount & E57 comp wheel (aka "57mm turbo")
3. Turbine wheel is close to Stage V dimensions.
4. Customer turbine housing is damaged beyond repair - no rest of turbo is not usable except for the special compressor housing

SUGGESTED SOLUTION:
DUAL BB ST5/E57 into cust. comp hsg w/new T3 .82 A/R housing
-Keep the compressor housing because it's really special <<-- that's what they actually said!
-and assemble it to the NEW TURBO with all new parts including NEW CHRA and NEW TURBINE HOUSING. We don't have a direct match for turbine hsg so it will be a 2-part deal with -T3 ford 5 bolt and internal W/G swingvalve module.

2 weeks out. It doesn't match up perfectly, but I'm hopeful that it's close enough I can tweak the exhaust and heat shield brackets to match the new. Outlet is about 1/4" further away from firewall, which is a good thing I think.
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
Old vs. New

IMG_4866.jpg


IMG_4867.jpg

IMG_4868.jpg

IMG_4869.jpg

IMG_4870.jpg

IMG_4871.jpg
 

powderpig

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
1,485
Well I did look today. That may not be wet fuel on the top of the pistons. You may want to use the bore scope and run the pistons to the bottom
of the stroke. Look at cylinder side walls for scratches, and to see what the piston to side wall look like. If you see wetness for the most part pulling from below, you might have a ring problem.
As for valves looking like the way they are, Exhaust valves are not sealing well and that is blow by on a thin margin, or possiability of a crack starting with the streaks, so you have combustion and fluid that is being pushed past the valve sealing area, the streaks show more of an opening in a specific spot, That is why I am saying you might have a crack starting.
You may want to rotate the engine to open the valves in the cylinder with these streaks and see with the bore scope if any cracks or major pits, with the bore scope in the cylinder side.
The cylinder leak down test may show some interesting things as well(like 1 and 6 have issue with rings, and the cylinders with the streaks have loss in the exhaust side of the engine.
Good luck with this Matt
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
Thank you sir! :bowdown:
 

Corbet

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
6,099
Location
Durango, Colorado
Robbie’s post above is why I did a full rebuild before installing my turbo. Now just to find the time to actually put the turbo on.
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
How to do a leakdown test? I get the basic concept, but specifically for 80s…?

how to rotate engine by hand? Trying to search mud.
 

powderpig

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
1,485
Well since you have the space plugs out, one should be able to turn the engine over with the alternator nut with a socket. If it does not
come easy, then you may have some bottom end issues. Or if the belts are not tight, you can push on the belts while turning the ratchet.
As for the Cylinder leak down. I do not do these often. There should be some Youtube vids. Biggest thing is having a air compressor to have an regulated air source. Having(and keeping) the piston at TDC on compression stroke of each cylinder. Way easier with a manual tranny. But with auto, you may need to hold the alternator bolt (reverse)when pressurizing the cylinder to do the test. If the piston is not at top dead center, the air can push the piston to bottom of the stroke. The tester has the pressure you will need to maintain, and look at the gauges to see leakage in %. most testers will have a book to help determine how to read the gauges. Then one can listen to where the air is going as well. If coming out the intake, then intake valves not sealing, if coming out the exhaust, then exhaust valves. If coming out the Oil fill hole(yes leave this open when you are doing the test), then the rings might be the source of your leakage.
Happy Hunting
 

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
8,580
Location
Boulder, Co
When you get the piston near TDC go a tad bit past then stick a breaker on the crank nut and brace it on the frame. The air will generate a ton of force and you don’t want to have it move unpredictably.

input gauge should be set at 100psi then read the cylinder gauge for leakdown percentage. Mainly listen for where it’s leaking from. Repeat for the other cylinders. Again be very careful you don’t end up sending a breaker bar into orbit.

don’t get hung up on the leakdown number just yet. It likely might be worse than you think. You should also do a compression test on each cylinder to have kind of all the data. It will make you freak out less if you get decent leakdown. Also worth just checking valves are closed completely with a feeler gauge or something if there a lot of air escaping past them. Quick sanity check yanno.
 
Last edited:

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
It might be worse than I think? I hope you mean better?
 

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
8,580
Location
Boulder, Co
What I’m saying is if it’s seemingly high leak down like %15 or something don’t freak out. Even is good and also no valve leakage is good. But some into the crankcase can be expected. I think some folks talk about really low numbers like 0 to say %5 but that probably won’t be a “normal” motor.

You are mainly doing it to see where the air is going…
 

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
8,580
Location
Boulder, Co
Jackson can chime in I’m sure
 

subzali

Hard Core 4+
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
9,619
Location
Denver CO
So, we moved. Had to do the tow rope of shame to get to the new house. Thankfully it was less than 2 miles away. Getting things organized again.

I rotated the engine off the alternator bolt and got better pics of cylinders 1 and 6. Feeling better because they look like all the others - I think those original pics were just too close.

Cyl 1
IMG_2252.JPG


Cyl 6
IMG_2254.JPG
 
Top