• Jack-it Night: April 2024 RS Meeting Hey Guest: Wed. April 3rd is the next Rising Sun meeting, and you won't want to miss it. We're doing our annual offroad recovery equipment demonstration and trail skills training aka "Jack It Night." Meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. (early) Click here for all the details.

Recovery Gear Arsenal

gungriffin

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Way more of debate over rated recovery points than I wanted! I was just curious if getting a threaded eye bolt would work for all makes and models out there...

Thanks Daniel for the idea of hitting up a u-pull yard.

As was said previously, there are many different models of tow hooks. You would probably need at least 3-5 different hooks for the different makes.

I doubt that I would carry these items for other people. My thought is I wouldn't really want the liability of supplying this item and then having any sort or failure or damage. I just don't trust many people to take responsibility and not sue. If they are unprepared, that is on them. I would happily give someone stuck a ride to a phone or GPS coordinates for a tow truck off of my GPS.

I needed to tow my 335i recently (go figure...), and I was talking with the driver who seemed quite knowledgeable. He didn't use the eyelet to pull me up onto the truck, but instead looped a tow strap through both of my front A arms. He said that the eyelet was only rated to be used 3-5 times before damage could occur. He said that if the structure that the bolt ties into is damaged, most insurance companies will total the vehicle. I am trying to remember the exact reason, but it had to do with being part of the crash structure on most unibody vehicles. It will actually bend the entire brace that the eyelet ties into. Because of this, there is a big liability on the insurance companies if it is repaired incorrectly and put back on the road. It sounded similar to some people with C7 Corvettes getting their cars totaled because of a small crack in the transmission tunnel.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...-was-totaled-thanks-to-one-microscopic-crack/
 

DaveInDenver

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I needed to tow my 335i recently (go figure...), and I was talking with the driver who seemed quite knowledgeable. He didn't use the eyelet to pull me up onto the truck, but instead looped a tow strap through both of my front A arms. He said that the eyelet was only rated to be used 3-5 times before damage could occur. He said that if the structure that the bolt ties into is damaged, most insurance companies will total the vehicle. I am trying to remember the exact reason, but it had to do with being part of the crash structure on most unibody vehicles. It will actually bend the entire brace that the eyelet ties into. Because of this, there is a big liability on the insurance companies if it is repaired incorrectly and put back on the road.
I'd check your manual since that's exactly the opposite as our Forester manual advises. There is no warning to limit number of uses on the loop. The only warning is that the rear holes are for downward anchoring. The two front tie-downs do not warn against forward pulls so if the loop isn't an option those apparently can be used instead.

Screen Shot 2020-01-24 at 2.06.16 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-01-24 at 2.06.02 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-01-24 at 2.07.50 PM.png


BMW, Toyota or any other OEM could say something else but I suspect the way Subaru does it is probably not unique.

The receiving hole for the tow loop is part of the basic structure of the car, it's not a distinct part like the truck recovery points. If that can't be used to pull your car onto a flat bed then it's probably already on it's way to being totaled. A little crack like on that C7 is exactly how a major problem starts. There's nothing inconsequential on the unibody.
 

BritKLR

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Spent a lot of summers in Galveston, Tx. and used my Sami countless times pulling flatlanders and college kids BMWs, Audi’s, Volvo’s out of the soft sand. Most drivers were clueless about their on-board tool kits and tow eyelets. The best was watching a group of college guys pushing, pulling, lifting a 325ic convertible with a couple of girls in it, trying to get it unstuck. They managed to break the rear spoiler off while pushing and I watched until a guy started to tie a tow strap onto something underneath the front end. Sami rolled up, popped the trunk, grabbed the tow eyelet, popped the bumper cover, hooked up strap and pulled them to the parking lot......lot of deflated teen egos....
 
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Corbet

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For the record I recovered a Jeep a while back outside Crested Butte. We went looking for the threaded eyelet and were not able to find one. After an owners manual inspection said eyelet was "optional equipment" So maybe same for Audi? Every Subaru I've owned its been located with the jack as standard equipment.

I ended up looping through the wheel. Less than desirable but it worked after a long talk with the owner and potential risks.
 

Inukshuk

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Great video! So hard to get good data. Rated equipment rarely breaks in a fashion where the shackle will go flying (though it happened once to me witheth OE point - it was damaged). The mass of that shackle is probably as much again as the whole strap. Usually your strap or winch line will fail before the recovery point fails.

I was impressed how the chain kept the line on the ground. That was a much more controlled motion than whipping through the air.
 
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DaveInDenver

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The video does indeed assume a shackle mid-rope/strap is set free. This is of course a general no-no and while I agree with Bill Burke on the point that there's no reason to assume steel shackles and pulleys are inherently worse due simply to mass I think a soft shackle is a better solution.

There can still be times when a winch hook or thimble might be out in space when you use an extension perhaps and you should always consider stored energy even in synthetic ropes and straps. It's also possible a recovery point fails or maybe a pulley or other hardware is released from a failed anchor.

So it's valuable data still to know hanging a blanket or damper over a tensioned line seems to be a false safety step. It's better to rig properly and make sure only the people who need to be exposed are inline. Everyone else perpendicular and far enough away that gravity pulls flying rigging and ricocheting debris down.

I do like the chain demo. It's obvious from a physics standpoint but I've never considered taking that much time.
 

Corbet

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That was a good eye opener. The main thing I took from it is how dangerous a recovery point failing could be. That would seem to be the primary cause to put a shackle in flight.

Would be interesting to run the math on what has more energy, a shackle at 250 KPH or a chain at 42? I don’t want to be in the path of either.
 

DaveInDenver

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That was a good eye opener. The main thing I took from it is how dangerous a recovery point failing could be. That would seem to be the primary cause to put a shackle in flight.

Would be interesting to run the math on what has more energy, a shackle at 250 KPH or a chain at 42? I don’t want to be in the path of either.
They have the same energy. All the energy that was in the strap and shackle went to accelerating the chain.

gif.latex.gif


That's why a damper alone can't work, it has almost no mass so all the energy is velocity.

It would be interesting for him to have done a test with weighted dampers that were just built better. The problem was that they were torn by the strap, which implies the weight did help since it stayed put. A damper made with kevlar or steel reinforcement might have worked better.
 
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DaveInDenver

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Back of napkin calculations. A 4.75 ton shackle is listed at 2.35 lbs in Crosby's catalog, so 1.1 kg. Accelerated to 96 m/s in 0.142 seconds means it carries 5,069 J of kinetic energy.

Then 5,069 J accelerated to 12 m/s in 0.917 seconds would mean the chain is 70 kg, so 154 lbs. Obviously that's off. If you notice the shackle alone travels freely the whole distance and hit the back stop. But the chained strap drops almost immediately to the ground and is dragged in the dirt.

Say it was 3/8" Gr 70 chain. That's 1.4 lbs/foot and I think he said 9 m, so 30 feet and 42 lbs, with significant friction there.

That might be the key, put enough resistance on the strap/rope to get it dragging as quick as possible. So the critical weight, so to speak, is enough to damp the initial acceleration long enough for gravity to do its work. That appears to be about 1/2 a second or so.

What about using a water jug? Hmmm, that might be something to think about. A tactical overland water jug that is stout and can be connected to a winch line since 5 gallons of water is ~40 lbs. Actually a jug with a thick tab and a length of 1/2" Dyneema might work.
 

Corbet

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Thanks Dave, I could not remember my basic physics formulas, but assumed all other things equal they would have the same energy.

In the end making sure you have solid recovery points and removing as many heavy projectiles from the equation seems like the best practice. I’m yet to use a soft shackle, this may be a good example of their advantage. Would also indicate where winching with synthetic would be a safer option than really yanking on a snatch strap. As well as never inserting a snatch strap into your winching recovery system. Recovery can be dangerous work.
 

Jenny Cruiser

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"optional equipment" So maybe same for Audi?
Not optional. German's don't make safety related equipment optional on their autos. My 5 series BMtroubleU had one and during that blizzard of 06 or 07 knowing where to find them and how to use them came in really handy when I was pulling Jeeps, t4rs and Audis out of drifts down there in Denver.
 

Inukshuk

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I think there is an older thread on 80 recovery points but this is the one I found for here goes: The 80 and 100 series "URB" recovery point looks to be on sale again!


I just ordered a pair for my 80. I already have one pair from a long time ago.
 

DaveInDenver

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I think there is an older thread on 80 recovery points but this is the one I found for here goes: The 80 and 100 series "URB" recovery point looks to be on sale again!


I just ordered a pair for my 80. I already have one pair from a long time ago.

Followed your link for those URB and noticed they are essentially beefy bent hunks of steel.

URB-Installed.jpg


Before getting the ARB point for my truck I ran the Bulletproof Fab point, which is similar in that it's a bent up 3/16" bracket that bolts on a factory location.

The bracket itself is neither here nor there but in the photo I noticed the shackle is hanging obviously crooked. The same thing happened with my BPF. One thing about shackles is they need to be loaded uniformly and so rigging manuals suggest to use packing washers in situations such as this to minimize it shifting.

Screen Shot 2020-03-02 at 2.44.08 PM_mid.jpg


So I carry a stack of washers just in case I encounter a situation where the clevis is significantly narrower than the spread of a shackle to trim out things a bit.

I use regular grade 5 washers, I don't think there's any reason you'd need to use grade 8 or anything exotic. The bracket steel is probably A36, which is quite a bit lower strength than grade 5, even grade 2 would probably suffice.

Where it would matter is the bolts holding on the bracket. At least reuse the factory fasteners or I'd want class 10.9 or 12.9 replacements.

IMG_0256_mid.jpg
 
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LARGEONE

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3A993721-39C0-4E25-9F4F-0E92E0BFBB69.jpeg

One thing I purchased that can help grab from inside of the frame or other areas of a unibody is this contraption. You need to make sure you hook into something substantial, but it gives you a lot of options for cars that don’t have true recovery points. Tow truck operators use them.
 

LARGEONE

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Also, I have several sets of recovery points that fit various vehicles. Let me know what your bolt spacing is on the underside of your frame and I can check to see what I have. These are all the URB two bolt style. A grade 10, 12mm bolt can handle a lot of shear force. In addition, these bolts are sandwiching the recovery point to the frame if torqued correctly. So, the full force of the recovery is reduced by the friction forces of the "sandwich".
 

Inukshuk

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One thing I purchased that can help grab from inside of the frame or other areas of a unibody is this contraption. You need to make sure you hook into something substantial, but it gives you a lot of options for cars that don’t have true recovery points. Tow truck operators use them.
Relatively inexpensive to carry. This one on Amazon is rated and perfectly fine.
 

Inukshuk

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Also, I have several sets of recovery points that fit various vehicles. Let me know what your bolt spacing is on the underside of your frame and I can check to see what I have. These are all the URB two bolt style. A grade 10, 12mm bolt can handle a lot of shear force. In addition, these bolts are sandwiching the recovery point to the frame if torqued correctly. So, the full force of the recovery is reduced by the friction forces of the "sandwich".
I have replaced all my recovery point attachment bolts, and the bolts that hold my ARB bumper on. 1) because 20+ years old, and 2) on removal some had diminished by rust.

We are lucky to have AAA Metric local. They have them all and in the grade needed, metric 10.9
 
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Inukshuk

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Good local (Sedalia) source for proper overhead lifting rated screw-pin bow shackles. https://westernsling.com/

Typical size we use we call 3/4 inch. It will have a 3/4 inch bow and 7/8 inch pin (so it will not fit that 3/4 inch recovery hole!). Here it would be their "green pin" Van Beest GPGHBB19 4.75T WLL (working load limit for overhead lifting). $11.98 each. (4.75T = 9,500 lbs. The MBL (Minimum breaking load} is 6x that, or 57,000 lbs) These are all for straight line pulls. Said another way, f'ing strong, you won't break it.

Personally I have the M652AP by Columbus McKinnon ("CM") Due to different alloy, the same size shackle has a 7T WLL (14,000) "CM Alloy Shackles are designed with a 5:1 design factor [so designed to withstand 70,000 lbs] and have a strength rating approximately 50% higher than a comparable-sized carbon shackle and about 25% stronger than super strong shackles."
 
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