Mobile Radio Selection

[DaveInDenver]

InReach and Spot do overlap with APRS. But they aren't necessarily the same. APRS is free, at least beyond the cost of equipment. But it's not sold as an SOS, it's not really even "sold" at all, any infrastructure that exists is hams doing it for each other and for fun.

I was able to get packets through in the middle of nowhere last weekend, it truly is amazing sometimes. It's the result of a bunch of dorks tinkering.

Things like InReach wouldn't exist if Bob Bruninga (who taught at the Naval Academy) didn't invent it. That was, BTW, 25 years ago when APRS was conceived, before the GPS constellation was even fully operational hams were already leveraging what it could do. We had satellites before everyone almost everyone else. AMSAT was the second U.S. satellite after the government and before AT&T put up their first.

Of course when you invest tens of billions of dollars like Gobalstar and Iridium in a commercial enterprise you expect certain things to happen. When it's a ham in Rangley or Craig spending his hard earned money to rent space on a tower and keep a digipeater and IGate going the occasional downtime or dead spot shouldn't be seen as a deficiency.

It shouldn't be compared to what Iridium, Garmin and Delorme have built in InReach.

I run a Spot device. Similar to the InReach, just does one-way positions and check-ins. I send texts and emails to my wife via APRS when I get coverage, she being a ham can send them back if she wants. It's not 100% and it's not a substitute for a sat phone or InReach.

But OTOH the reason I do this stuff is specifically to get the heck off the grid a little. Yeah, it's a little exciting to maybe be out of contact for a day or two. OMG! We have an understanding. If I don't check in she'll at least have my last position and at least a vague plan. I won't be forgotten forever.

 

[mcgaskins]

That’s really fascinating stuff Dave thanks for sharing!

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'll also say that APRS is the only way to really keep tabs on each other locally. APRS lets any ham beacon out his position and send messages to someone within a few miles away. On the Cruiserfest drive Ige, Daniel and I had APRS beacons running and every 2 or 3 minutes I would have a new fix on Ige and Daniel that would pop on my navigation GPS, so I always knew within a few hundred feet where they were. I could figure out if they took a wrong turn and if it ever became necessary direct them to camp or something like that. APRS is way underutilized within ham, and in particular 4x4 ham, circles. It can be highly useful. With the leader and tailgunner doing APRS positions it would be possible to keep a group spread out over even miles together.

 

[AimCOTaco]

I'll also say that APRS is the only way to really keep tabs on each other locally. APRS lets any ham beacon out his position and send messages to someone within a few miles away. On the Cruiserfest drive Ige, Daniel and I had APRS beacons running and every 2 or 3 minutes I would have a new fix on Ige and Daniel that would pop on my navigation GPS, so I always knew within a few hundred feet where they were. I could figure out if they took a wrong turn and if it ever became necessary direct them to camp or something like that. APRS is way underutilized within ham, and in particular 4x4 ham, circles. It can be highly useful. With the leader and tailgunner doing APRS positions it would be possible to keep a group spread out over even miles together.

This is a great post, APRS in a local area for 4x4 use is just awesome... one of my favorites was having a station already in camp for the night calling out turns to me as I was trying to find camp in the dark. All I had to do was drive and the other station called out turns (and missed turns) so it allowed me to drive much faster and save lots of time vs. bumbling around in the dark with only voice comms.

 

[nakman]

Say that last part again... both radios need to have APRS for that to work, right?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Say that last part again... both radios need to have APRS for that to work, right?

Yes.

Assuming everyone has beaconing going, which is where a GPS position is transmitted periodically, there'll need to someone with a more complete setup.

What Andy is talking about is that there's a radio capable of outputting waypoints that were decoded from heard packets and plotting them on a map.

Using one example, which is connecting a radio to an old Garmin Nuvi 350 with the Argent GTRANS cable they would show up as waypoints, both plotted on the map if they are close and in the Find->Waypoint Manager list (or something similar).

I have a Tracker3 that I have set to output NMEA waypoints and there was no special cable needed for my GPSMap 78 other than a plain old serial cable.

 

[AimCOTaco]

Yep, my APRS interface is an android tablet so I have a decent sized touch screen for ease of use, it's nice to have the touch interface for pan/zoom and messaging input etc. The tablet or phone is blue-tooth connected to a tiny modem (mobilink'd) that runs an HT as the transceiver section.
I only have about $60 in this set up for the modem (http://www.mobilinkd.com/), the HT is my spare ft-50r and I already had the tablet for GPS mapping and MVUMS. The drawback of this set up is too many cables and things to configure and have set right to use it.
I see on e-bay now there exist units that are all in one BT/modem/transceiver that take a 12v power input and I'm interested in trying one out... but this works pretty well.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Are you talking about those Sainsonic trackers Andy? There's a couple of model numbers, the AVRT5 and AP510. They seem to be an all-in-one solution, would be interesting to see one up close. Being 1W (optimistically from what I understand) would be limiting. Also not using a standard TNC might mean eventually some glitches. They seem to be popular in high altitude balloon launches, for obvious reasons.

 

[AimCOTaco]

Dave,
Yeah, I think that's what I'd looked at. Obviously not completely thought out, I was thinking there were some 5-10W options out there. So yes if there was a better transceiver section available that would be an interesting option but at 1W I'll hold.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Byonics has a 40W all-in-one. It's not cheap, though. To get one configured with Bluetooth would be $310.

http://www.byonics.com/mtt4b

There are more options in the 5W range because it's a much more common power level for off the shelf telemetry radios. That's actually what I use, a Friendcom FC-301/D data radio that's got an Argent Tracker3 stuffed inside it. I have an external RS232-BT dongle but haven't done much with it in the truck yet. It works well as a KISS interface on the bench so whenever I get a tablet it should be GTG.

http://wiki.argentdata.com/index.php?title=T3-301

 

[AimCOTaco]

Dave,
Those are helpful links and you've reminded me of one of my fundamental problems here... I'm cheap when it comes to spending money yet I spend my time and frustration freely!
... I think my next move is still to repackage the FT-50r + mobilinkd + 12v-5v supply to have an instant on 144.39, 5W, BT/Kiss running on 12v without having to mess with power, channel, TRRS issues, and two chargers... I just want to flip a toggle and connect to BT.

Not sure what Alex should do though. Maybe the best solution is still a basic radio and a second set up for the APRS to get a decent user interface.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I usually end wasting both time and money.

 

[Rezarf]

I usually end wasting both time and money.

If I could get paid at wasting time and money... I'd be the worlds richest man.

 

[RayRay27]

To say I'm a ham newb is a gross understatement, but what you described makes me think of what my Garmin Inreach Explorer + does very well. I turn it on when I'm heading out, and when I share my location to my wife, friends, etc. and turn on tracking, it shows my location updated every 10 mins (you can change and modify the interval to shorter or longer) with detailed coordinates and a map sent via email or text. I leave it on the entire time I'm gone so any of them can see where I am. Of course that device is a GPS / satellite communicator that uses the Iridium sat phone infrastructure and requires a data plan, but it works for the above plus sending text messages via satellite and SOS calls and a lot more.

I currently have a handheld FT60R that works very well, so I'm not sure if I have a need for a hard mounted super fancy setup, even though it seems like it would be cool/fun. I think I'd continue to use the Garmin for the things you mention APRS would be good for and probably wouldn't the high tech features of a FT400M enough to justify the expense.

How do you like your FT-60R? I have been looking at that one for a while now as my first radio. Any positives or negatives at all?

 

[mcgaskins]

How do you like your FT-60R? I have been looking at that one for a while now as my first radio. Any positives or negatives at all?

My dad gave me the radio along with his brand new, never used Yaesu 897D because I mentioned how the club uses Ham. He was a combat controller in the Air Force and was sort of a radio enthusiast back in the day, and after he retired he started working with non profits in disaster relief. He bought the radios thinking it would come in handy for his work, but it ended up not being something he needed for what he was doing.

That's why I ended up with such a nice setup for my first radio(s), but I'm still a complete radio newb so I can't give much of a strong opinion. That said, I have found the range and quality to be excellent, and the unit itself is heavy and sturdy with a top notch feel. I've played around with a Baofeng radio, and while I'll bet it's very nice especially for the money, it feels much less substantial...which it should for only ~$27 as opposed to $170 for the Yaesu. I might suggest starting with the cheaper Baofeng for your first then stepping up to the Yaesu and tossing the Baofeng in the glove box for a backup.

 

[Mendocino]

@MTSN, if you ever want to get rid of the 897D let me know...

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

How do you like your FT-60R? I have been looking at that one for a while now as my first radio. Any positives or negatives at all?

I'm sporting the FT-60R. I like it but I'm completely ignorant to whether or not it's a good radio as I'm generically radio ignorant and have nothing else to compare it to. It does get a little scratchy but I think that could be easily remedied with an external antenna and an adapter. I was using it on the GJ trip we went on but we kept the formation pretty tight so it might not be a great data point. I know when we were heading to the parking lot after you and @DaveInDenver left, I was able to pick him up when he was almost to his house. I think that was more a representation of his setup though.

 

[J1000]

I figured I'd just post in this thread versus starting a new one for my question. I was going to buy a FTM-400 but saw the new FTM-300DR and it seems like it might be just fine for me. It does most of the stuff I think I will need or want for $150 less than the 400. It's also a smaller size.

https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=71-003327

https://amzn.to/3hUdCdt

 

[J1000]

Well I went for the 400 for maximum bling factor. HRO is currently having a sale on Yaesu stuff FYI.

https://www.hamradio.com/special_offers.cfm

 

[Stuckinthe80s]

Well I went for the 400 for maximum bling factor. HRO is currently having a sale on Yaesu stuff FYI.

https://www.hamradio.com/special_offers.cfm

it’s a known fact that radios work better when they look cool. 😉

Seriously though, I wish I would have gone with the 400 from the get go instead of trying to piece together two setups: one for my mobile unit, one for dedicated APRS. Maybe the wife will want one for Christmas. 🤔