idiot's guide to FT5DR operation

[nakman]

these are on sale right now. https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-017648 I ordered one.

My hope is for APRS in my other trucks that don't have the FTM-400 installed, also the occasional hike... plus whatever else I should be doing with a dual band HT. Looking forward to some user tips.. I ordered the female adapter for an antenna cable, as I've got a mag mount antenna I can likely use. not sure if it comes with a 12v power cord, or if one of my other ones will work for this, can always buy that later. first step is receiving the thing, then figure out how to turn it on, then see if I can get a qso simplex style, then connect it to a repeater. Kind of excited to jump into a new rig!

 

[nakman]

Ok well I managed to turn the thing on. talked to myself via simplex, then set up the 145.310 repeater and just had my first real QSO... so I guess I'm off and running here. The coax adapter I ordered is the wrong size, I need to get a different one but can wait on this. I'm able to use the Diamond SRH77CA antenna I bought to run on my other Yaesu HT's and that seems to work pretty good, though I can't really tell a difference between it and the stock antenna.

One observation is that when I plug in any power cord, the radio shuts off. This is with both the AC adapter and 12v cord from my old (currently at the bottom of Blue Mesa Res) VX-7r. But when there's power running through the cord, the radio will turn on again. So I don't know if this is a feature I can toggle (haven't looked) or just something to get used to.. like if this were plugged into a switched 12v hole in my truck I could see this getting really annoying, as the radio would shut off every time I turn the truck off.

@60wag I'm glad to see you got one of these... have you noticed that same behavior?

 

[60wag]

Ok well I managed to turn the thing on. talked to myself via simplex, then set up the 145.310 repeater and just had my first real QSO... so I guess I'm off and running here. The coax adapter I ordered is the wrong size, I need to get a different one but can wait on this. I'm able to use the Diamond SRH77CA antenna I bought to run on my other Yaesu HT's and that seems to work pretty good, though I can't really tell a difference between it and the stock antenna.

One observation is that when I plug in any power cord, the radio shuts off. This is with both the AC adapter and 12v cord from my old (currently at the bottom of Blue Mesa Res) VX-7r. But when there's power running through the cord, the radio will turn on again. So I don't know if this is a feature I can toggle (haven't looked) or just something to get used to.. like if this were plugged into a switched 12v hole in my truck I could see this getting really annoying, as the radio would shut off every time I turn the truck off.

@60wag I'm glad to see you got one of these... have you noticed that same behavior?

Yes, mine resets but does come back on when the power cord is connected or disconnected.

 

[nakman]

Well I think I got APRS to work... after some time the OS starts to resemble the OS of the FTM-400, of which I'm somewhat familiar. I had to download the APRS manual though which makes it a little tricky as I need to zoom in a lot on my phone to see it. But that's saved on the phone now, along with a bunch of other manuals... I couldn't find it on Yaesu's site but DX engineering has it

https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/ysu-ft-5dr_dz.pdf

it seems to think I'm a few blocks north of where I really am. but maybe this is close enough.. I have the same issue on the FTM-400, fwiw.

And I had to keep forcing my beacon to go out, and only saw it pop up 1x on the screen... reminds me again of the FTM-400. One interesting thing though is it has a "smartbeacon" setting... where you pick 1, 2, or 3 depending on if you're driving fast, driving slow, or walking. So maybe it just doesn't shoot out beacons when you're sitting on the couch. I'll see what happens today when I drive around a bunch. I also noticed I burned through about 1/3 of the battery just messing with the radio on the couch for an hour or so... I suspect I'm going to really like the 12v power cord.

 

[AimCOTaco]

If it's like FT1, you'll need to tune your beacon settings and pick the setting appropriate for each activity.
I think I have one setting for foot travel and another for vehicle with different update frequency/speed parameters.
Just push all the buttons and read all the manuals, you'll be good.
Also be aware that pushing out packets to the various digipeters and igates is a lot less reliable on an HT until you plug in the external antenna and give it some sky..

 

[DaveInDenver]

it seems to think I'm a few blocks north of where I really am. but maybe this is close enough.. I have the same issue on the FTM-400, fwiw.

We've talked about this before. You have position accuracy reduction turned on for some reason. Based on K0NAK-7 packets it looks like you're truncating two digits, which puts your APRS accuracy at roughly +/- 1 mile mathematically. Your mobile APRS station is the same way. Are you turning it on intentionally or by mistake perhaps?

And I had to keep forcing my beacon to go out, and only saw it pop up 1x on the screen... reminds me again of the FTM-400. One interesting thing though is it has a "smartbeacon" setting... where you pick 1, 2, or 3 depending on if you're driving fast, driving slow, or walking. So maybe it just doesn't shoot out beacons when you're sitting on the couch. I'll see what happens today when I drive around a bunch. I also noticed I burned through about 1/3 of the battery just messing with the radio on the couch for an hour or so... I suspect I'm going to really like the 12v power cord.

Yes! This is something else I've touched on. Even SmartBeacon I think pumps too many packets out but at least it adds speed dependency. You set a ramp from zero up to a top speed where packet rate increases with speed.

The variables in most SmartBeacon engines are:
Fast Speed
Fast Rate
Slow Speed
Slow Rate
Min Turn Angle
Min Turn Speed
Turn Slope/Corner Pegging

The Fast/Slow stuff is obvious. Under Slow Speed (I use 5 MPH) packets are sent at the Rate you ask. I usually put 30 minutes, which is the minimum most APRS clients require to keep you on their active station list. In a mobile station in the backcountry going to 15 minutes for slow isn't a bad idea, figuring some packets aren't going to make it to an iGate.

The Turn stuff is a little different. Turn Angle I use 30 degrees and Turn Speed I use 15 seconds. What this means is I have to turn more than 30 degrees for new packet to be sent and the shortest time between them is 15 seconds. So in a fast (say under 15 seconds) complete switch back (e.g. 180°) I'll only send one, not 6 of them. If it's a very slow turn (like multi-point) I might send as many as two or three but it would have to be a very slow turn around.

Turn Slope or Corner Pegging is a much more confusing concept but crucial to SmartBeacon. Suffice to say I use 25. It's a unitless variable that's trying to determine deviation from a course. It wraps up your speed and turning to come up with a packet rate. The algorithm then ramps packet rate up and down between all the variables. So at around 30 MPH the packet rate I get is around 3 to 4 minutes in my example with Fast at 2 minute periods.

 

[nakman]

Ok I found the setting I was after for location accuracy... #13, Beacon Info. To be accurate you set ambiguity to OFF. On both radios I had ambiguity set to 1, which means it drops off the last digit of both latitude and longitude. Set it to 2 and you lose 2 digits, etc. But now the map shows that I'm back in my driveway. Ok at least that is resolved...

I am temped to turn the smart beacon off, and just let it send a beacon every 5 minutes regardless. Would be something to mess with when out on an adventure maybe, to dial in just how often beacons are being sent, etc. Anyway, big baby step forward tonight with the ambiguity thing.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Fixed beacons I think works fine portable (e.g. at hiking or MTB speed). The advantage to SmartBeacon is when set right you can get a reasonably detailed position tracking with the same or smaller number of packets (e.g. using the same 12 packets/hour you'd get at fixed 300 seconds) because the algorithm is trying to rank significance of a change, so mobile truck or moto speed there's an advantage.

Remembering here that the point of APRS is ham radio uses and the main reasons we run APRS is to know where everyone is at events, like the control station running a net for a race or an emergency activation or a group of 4x4'ers at camp trying to guide in a friend. APRS is just doing the same thing as asking everyone where they are using a 1/3rd of a second on the air instead of ten seconds by voice. It's not a free substitute for one-way personal trackers or locator beacons. If you're using APRS the assumption is you're talking to another ham and it's for a relevant amateur radio reason.

So if you're stopped you only need to update the "I'm here" flag enough you don't drop off anyone's display. That's usually 15, 30 maybe 60 minutes. No reason to consume bandwidth in that case.

As you speed up you need more packets of course. In that case how many do you need? We can look to commercial satellite trackers, like my SPOT. They typically go 5 to 10 minutes between updates. That's plenty for a last known position to SAR. That's also enough just to know where all your ham buddies are.

But if you're moving, then it gets complicated. At 5 or 10 minutes you could blow a missed turn by several miles. So you'd want to push up the rate. APRS is shared bandwidth, though. A network can clog. Under normal conditions an APRS network can support about 50 to 100 stations, that being everyone mobile, fixed, digipeaters, iGates, on-air weather stations. And that's when everyone is being a good ham, normal update rates like about 300 seconds or so. When everyone goes to 60 seconds the carrying capacity goes down fast unless it's well coordinated using time slotting. This isn't just a big city problem. Here in GJ it's rarely the case but over in Moab they can overload. It's covered by several high level digipeaters and when there's an event everyone wants to ping out tons of positions, you can get collisions in the morning and evenings in town.

That's where SmartBeacon comes in. You can automatically vary your rate when you want to balance position accuracy with being a considerate operator. You take bandwidth when you need it, changing positions fast in turns or moving at high speed, not take it when all you're going to do is keep repeating the same information, I'm just going straight doesn't need to be repeated every 60 seconds.

Keep in mind, too, that if you do messages your position is appended to the packet. So if you ask "Where the heck are you?" or "Hey guys, just hit FS434, should be 15 minutes." everyone's display updates with your new position. This is also the intention for Mic-E, that when you key your mic for voice a short APRS position is sent as the radio is keyed. That is rarely set up right and those of us with dedicated APRS stations won't have it at all.

 

[nakman]

Almost to this beer and radio thing, if anybody is watching from Outer space

 

[nakman]

ok here's my silly question for the day... so this radio has a little bump on the top for the GPS antenna, right? And is that how it transmits my APRS beacon? Or just how it knows its position? Because I'm wondering why the antenna matters so much, and why it works so much worse inside a car... I'm using the antenna to transmit, right?

I think I have my settings pretty dialed though... I also confirmed while down at HRO that I shouldn't actually see my own beacon pop up, that was confusing me, and I don't see myself on the S-List either. But when I force it to send one (Beacon TX) then I do see it. This seems to be the case on the FTM-400 also... though it's not 100%.