FRS/GMRS channels for Cruise Moab

[Hulk]

For Cruise Moab 2022, we are moving to FRS radios as the official mode of communication. We experimented with this last year at the 2021 event by giving everyone a 2-pack of Midland FRS radios, and it was a great success. CB radios have been phased out by other events, and it's time for us to do so as well.

I'd like to confer with the radio experts here to see if you reach the same conclusions about which are the best FRS/GMRS channels to use.

I am thinking that we should use channels 15-22 exclusively since:

a) Channels 1-7 are limited in broadcast power​

b) Channels 8-14 are limited to exclusively handheld radios 😑 (no GMRS mobile units allowed) per section (d) of §95.1763 GMRS channels. In theory, there could be a "GMRS handheld" that qualifies for using channels 8-14, but in practice all the radios using these channels are FRS handhelds. Regardless, anyone who has invested in a nice GMRS mobile unit (like the Midland MXT 275/400/500) won't be able to communicate on these channels at all.​

c) Channels 15-22 allow GMRS radios to broadcast up to 50W and FRS radios to broadcast at 2W. This maximizes the utility of both radios. These are the most useful channels for all users.​

That's only 8 channels, so we may need to use the same channel for several runs. Hopefully, we can separate these geographically to avoid talking on the same channel.

 

[Hulk]

Updated chart:

 

[DaveInDenver]

You have the allocations right.

Channels 8-14 would be off limits for transmit by mobile radios. It's not universal that commercial offerings even include these channels for receive.

There's no reason to not use channels 1-7. Using a mobile radio with an external antenna is going to give plenty of range on simplex. The bump to 50 watts on 15-22 is more useful if you're using repeaters.

There's always the option to use tones, although that's an additional level of complexity of course.

 

[Hulk]

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate your thoughts. Having channels 1-7 in the mix would give us lots of options.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I forgot to make the point, too, about 50 watts. If your run has people using 5 watt GMRS HTs then having mobile radios at 50 watts isn't any advantage. You won't hear them any better on channel 15 than you would have on channel 1. They might hear you further away, though. So everyone should use 5 watts on 15-22 anyway.

 

[Hulk]

<snip>If your run has people using 5 watt GMRS HTs </snip>

Where does a person purchase a 5 watt GMRS HT?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Where does a person purchase a 5 watt GMRS HT?

Off the shelf:
Midland GXT1050 is 3 watts
Retevis RB27 is 3 watts
Retevis RT76 is 4 watts
Wouxon KG-805G and KG-905G are 5 watts

Alternatively there's several GMRS-legal Kenwood commercial radios (would require programming):
Kenwood TK-370, TK-3140, TK-3160, TK-3170, TK-3180 are all 5 watts

 

[RDub]

Radioddity GM-30 is advertised as 5W. Good price and decent, simple GMRS radio. I have one, and a Wouxun KG-805G. The Wouxun KG-935G is also in this class, but way more money.

 

[RDub]

I also have a pair of Motorola MR350R FRS HT's I would gladly part with cheap.

 

[Inukshuk]

Am I really about to quote Dave? yes!

There's no reason to not use channels 1-7.

Agree

There's always the option to use tones, although that's an additional level of complexity of course.

I think we should. Its simple enough and expands to 100's of "channels"

 

[Hulk]

Off the shelf:
Midland GXT1050 is 3 watts
Retevis RB27 is 3 watts
Retevis RT76 is 4 watts
Wouxon KG-805G and KG-905G are 5 watts

Alternatively there's several GMRS-legal Kenwood commercial radios (would require programming):
Kenwood TK-370, TK-3140, TK-3160, TK-3170, TK-3180 are all 5 watts

Radioddity GM-30 is advertised as 5W. Good price and decent, simple GMRS radio. I have one, and a Wouxun KG-805G. The Wouxun KG-935G is also in this class, but way more money.

OK, I looked into the affordable options that work out of the box:

• Midland GXT1050, 3 watts: meh, barely more power than my FRS radios. I have a desire to try another brand anyway.
• Retevis RT76, 4 watts: at $29.99, this is a good radio for a good price. Also, it looks super cool. Downside: needs a cradle to charge
• Wouxon KG-805G, 5 watts: this looks like a top-notch radio. $99 is the price. Downside: needs a cradle to charge + price
• Radioddity GM-30, 5 watts: Good price at $39.99 and it can be charged via a USB-C cord! Winner! I bought one + a programming cable

I already have the Midland MXT275 GMRS mobile radio and a couple of Midland T71VP3 FRS handheld radios, but the Radioddity GM-30 will get me a handheld GMRS radio that pushes out 5W on channels 1-7 and 15-22, and can be operated on channels 8-14 (at 0.5W max power).

The Wouxon KG-805G looks like a better radio (for example, it's rated IP55 water resistant where the Radioddity unit has no protection). I probably would have purchased that one if it didn't require a cradle for charging.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Charging cradles have become mostly universal with commercial and public service radios for a while now and it's a sore spot for non-commercial users like GMRS and ham. It's the way things are trending, though,

I've added the GM-30 to the radio matrix. It appears to be a full 4.9 watts on 1-7 and 15-22 and 0.5 watts on 8-14, which are within limits. The test report appears to show that it only does narrowband (11K0F3E). That's a little unfortunate because it checks several other boxes.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I’m a little bit confused about frs vs gmrs, and mobile vs handheld, and the ability to send/receive on certain channels.

I won a sweet midland mxt400 at the Christmas party (sorry @damon !!!) and I was hoping to use it at Cruise Moab.

Is this going to work for me or do I need a different radio???

 

[DaveInDenver]

I’m a little bit confused about frs vs gmrs, and mobile vs handheld, and the ability to send/receive on certain channels.

I won a sweet midland mxt400 at the Christmas party (sorry @damon !!!) and I was hoping to use it at Cruise Moab.

Is this going to work for me or do I need a different radio???

The MXT-400 will work just fine. It's a good radio.

FRS vs GMRS:
These two services have been confused into one blob but basically GMRS at this point can be viewed as "FRS Pro."

Going to "pro" gives you the option to use improved and external antennas, mobile radios with higher power, wider bandwidth (e.g. sounds better, slightly better range). You can talk to each other but using the benefits of GMRS you have to get a license.

Mobile vs Portable:
The difference is mobile radios are prohibited from using channels 8 to 14. They can receive on these channels but they cannot transmit on them.

The Cruise Moab people know about this limitation so all the communication for the event will be designed around this legal limitation. For regular club runs it's just something people have to keep in mind when picking a channel.

 

[damon]

I’m a little bit confused about frs vs gmrs, and mobile vs handheld, and the ability to send/receive on certain channels.

I won a sweet midland mxt400 at the Christmas party (sorry @damon !!!) and I was hoping to use it at Cruise Moab.

Is this going to work for me or do I need a different radio???

That will work fine. If you need an hand setting it up, I can assist one of these weekends. I ended up getting the MXT275 and installing it.

 

[damon]

The Cruise Moab people know about this limitation so all the communication for the event will be designed around this legal limitation. For regular club runs it's just something people have to keep in mind when picking a channel.

There is already a thread where this is being discussed. Sounds like we are only going to use the upper 50W max freqs.

 

[damon]

@Johnny Utah that 400 should be a really hot radio. With 15W I was able to hit a repeater in Northglenn from my driveway in Green Mountain and chat with a guy in Aurora.

 

[RDub]

My GM-30 can be switched between narrow and wideband in the menu on the radio. Earlier versions may have required the programming software to do that, or perhaps came from the factory with narrowband selected by default.

 

[DaveInDenver]

My GM-30 can be switched between narrow and wideband in the menu on the radio. Earlier versions may have required the programming software to do that, or perhaps came from the factory with narrowband selected by default.

The tests submitted to the FCC seem to suggest the radio can't do wide band. Are you sure it's actually doing it? It wouldn't be the first time a Chinese radio acceptance test wasn't, uh, well, completely honest...

FCC ID 2AN62-GM30 points to the P15UV approval.

https://fccid.io/2AJGM-P15UV/Test-Report/P15UV-FCC-Radio-Report-Part-95E-5201580.pdf

 

[RDub]

Good question. I can test it with my KG-805G and see if there is a difference.