Sink Creek (2f rebuild)

[Yakubj]

Three years ago my family picked up an 1979 FJ40 Landcruiser over the mountains. Car is still stock. To start it had a lot of problems, started but just barely and had a massive coolant leak from the water pump. Took a few weeks when we first got it to get it running, new water pump, belts, fuel filter, and cleaned the carb.

After getting it running I drove it for the summer between highschool and college but after that it just sat for a while because no one else wanted to drive it. So this summer when I moved out of on campus housing I took it and have since been working on getting it running better. Fixing the old 2F engine has been tough though. Fixed a massive exhaust leak (although there is still one on the smog part connected to the air injection that's going to require a new gasket) new sparkplug and wires, and fixed a vacuum leak to the distributor. Car sounds and feels much better now, however there are still some issues that need fixing that I was curious if anyone else had run into these issues and knew anything about them. When coming to a stop in neutral sometimes the car will stall out, seems to only happen after running for a while on high rpm's but recently it has been doing it all the time. Constantly have to mess with or flutter the choke to keep it from dying. Currently the 2F engine is as it was from the factory, but I'd like to desmog it, although I'm not sure I can with Colorado laws. I'm hoping fixing that the gasket will fix some of that but I'm not sure it will. Anyone else run into this issue and found any fix for it?

 

[subzali]

Welcome! You’re reminding me of when I was in college trying to keep a 40 running!

A couple thoughts.
-mine would do the same thing. Root cause was gunk floating around in the fuel bowl. You can drain the bowl and check/replace the fuel filter and maybe it will solve the problem.

-could also be a vacuum leak from the brake booster. There are ways to test the brake booster for leaks.

-get a Haynes manual at least to start with.

-do not de-smog it. We now have to deal with emissions nazis more than ever before.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If you're comfortable saying, where are you going to school? There may be someone willing to loan you a driveway, books, tools or/and time helping.

 

[Yakubj]

I’m over at Colorado school of Mines. Did a quick test of the brake booster, definitely something funky going on there, plus looking at everything I’m thinking my shoes are going to need replacing. Also looked around at the fuel line. Not sure what’s going on here:

If anyone has any ideas why there should be two filters on there lmk, thinking I’m gonna order one and some tubing and replace them. Still have to check out the fuel bowl but didn’t have a ton of time today. Also some full body pictures of the car for those interested:

 

[Romer]

Thats where @subzali went while he had his 40 and wheeled with us. Think he still has it as is still hanging around as a member 15 years later?

 

[subzali]

@Romer “when he wheeled with us…” ouch but yes it’s true I haven’t been able to get out in a while.

Still have the 40 and have many hopes and dreams that I hope to make reality some day!

@Yakubj welcome, good luck in school, and please start calling it a “40” and not a “car”

Sometimes folks end up with multiple fuel filters when they think there is crud coming through the tank. Swap in some new ones and see if it helps your problem. OEM are still available but may take some work to put all the fuel hard lines back together.

 

[Yakubj]

Hello, I had a hell of a school year and a tough summer internship but I'm back now and putting some new work into the 40. I took all of your advice and got the engine running a lot better. However in doing so it allowed me to notice another issue. The back two cylinders had no compression and the rest of them only had 70-80. Plus the engine started to develop some rod knock (me and my buddies may or may not have had something to do with that). So with these two factors decided to do a rebuild. First step was pulling the engine.

Hard to tell here but there is a lot of build up on it. Also I have a vacuum diagram and have been taking diligent pictures but I know I am definitely going to mess up on putting them all back in. Anyways got her out (turns out you can't just disconnect from the bell housing) and took off the head.

There it is, I wonder what might have been causing the no compression. These two don't look like they have worked in years. So I've got some rings on the way, still deciding where to get a new cam or just have this one ground, I have new bearings but if it gets ground I'll probably have to swap those out. Now just looking out for a machine shop to get some surfacing done, besides that I plan on doing it all myself. This is my first engine rebuild and I'm very excited but any advice would be greatly appreciated. Anyways I hope to be able to update soon. Thanks for reading.

 

[SteveH]

Gunn is the machine shop (in Denver) you need for the head work, at least. They do a LOT of 2F work and did a nice job on my head and charged reasonable rates.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The only advice I might give (and it's probably too late) is buy a box of gallon and box of quart Ziploc bags and a pack of index cards.

Write yourself a note with the fastener, sensor, wire, bracket or whatever as you take it off. Put that note and bits in the appropriate size Ziploc. For large stuff you can zip tie a bag of the right bolts to the place they go (oh, like on 22R, when you take all the bolts off the timing chain cover you can keep it all together).

Later when you have no idea what the hell you did you at least have a starting point to figure it out.

 

[Yakubj]

I went with Ziplocs and a sharpie and have them laid out with or on the part they go to.

 

[60wag]

When two adjacent cylinders lose compression, its likely a head gasket failure between the cylinders. Good luck with the build. Make sure the screws that hold the front cover plate to the block are properly staked in place.

 

[Cruisertrash]

2nd on Gunn Automotive on South Federal Blvd in Denver. They did a nice job on my 2F head. Kenny has apparently been working on F and 2F motors for a very long time.

 

[Yakubj]

New update for y'all, look at all those parts.

Got everything off except need a dang 46 mm to finish the teardown. None in stores around here so its off to amazon. Bottom end off looks a little rough too.

Uh oh. Non mag so hopefully just a bearing, we'll know soon enough. Just waiting on that 46. Also was scaping off some grime on the side and noticed this underneath.

Looks like it was in chalk, wondering if anyone had any insight into this or if a particular shop around here uses these marking when they do rebuilds. Like me it's from the west slope so maybe somewhere around there. Anyways that's all for now until I can get that socket. Hopefully I'll have it soon and can really get down to the root of what needs to be done and what it is going to cost.

 

[MDH33]

No going back now! Keep up the good work, that's a great 40. 👍

 

[DaveInDenver]

A 46mm what? Socket? Spanner? I've pressed a 1-13/16" socket into service on 46 mm nuts and it worked well enough.

At these sizes the difference is small, 46 mm being 0.0014" (0.036 mm) smaller than 1-13/16 (1.811024 vs. 1.812500). If you want to prove it to yourself (and double check me) verify the ANSI and JIS/ISO tolerances. It appeared to me that even when a 1-13/16" socket hits the high side of the allowable tool size (ANSI allows 1.822" up to 1.835"/46.60 mm) it'll still be just slightly inside H14 (+0.62 mm) and almost still within H13 (+0.39 mm) JIS/ISO tolerances for a 46 mm (in the 30-to-50 mm tolerance range) fit.

IOW, it all boils down to how good the fastener and tool suppliers are and ultimately it's possible that a bad metric socket could fit worse than a good fractional sized one, so there's no reason *not* to try a 1-13/16" and if the fit seems snug then, well, you just go with your bad self.

This is actually true I've found for many larger (>30mm) OEM fasteners on my Toyota trucks, since they seem to hit right on size. IOW they do not routinely test the lower end of the bolt head size tolerance, where a 46 mm flat-to-flat could be 45.61 mm, for example.

Some tools sized in mm are worse fit than their closest fractionals (looking at you going-through-bankruptcy Craftman) and in some cases a factional impact Harbor Freight fits exactly the same as the 10x as much Snap-On metric. Or for that matter a Harbor Freight metric is exactly the same fit (poor or good, whichever) since it's probably the same tooling making the two sockets (e.g. both the fractional and metric will be just inside their respective tolerances) with a different size etched in.

Yeah, if you took a micrometer to everything you might find the *real* difference, I'm just going by the "does it feel like a good fit" and "are my bolt head edges rounding off?" criteria. But even if you do measure the fastener and tool you might find an ideal fit might cross between metric/fractional marking dividing line.

Now I have not tried any of this with the threaded end, although I've bought a few metric bolts and nuts over the years that I could have sworn were cut as fractional... Ugh.

 

[Yakubj]

Another few days another update. Found where all the material came from.

Nice little spun bearing on the front. Changes the idea for the crank from a polish to a grind. Little worried about being able to find the right sized bearing for it afterwards, especially because I think this has been apart before. Guess that's up to the micrometer. Waiting for the 46mm socket to come in so we can take off the timing and get the crank and cam out. Didn't take any pictures of it but looks like the cam has some pitting too, either someone didn't take care of it last time this was apart or just some poor oil in it. Put a call into Gunn's and I'll be taking it there for some cleaning and measuring to decide on the next steps to be taken. Hopefully not going to need any surfacing or boring but we'll know soon. I appreciate all of your advice and expertise's. Definitely been helpful in thinking about where to take this rebuild. Probably won't have any updates for a bit while its off to the shop but I'll keep it going once I start putting it back together.

 

[Yakubj]

So have run into a problem, the spun bearing on the front of the main took off too much material on the block and cannot be machined. So now it's either time to go with a new motor or find a new block. I'd personally prefer to put a 2F back into it and keep it all original, but not sure where I can find one. Done some hunting around and haven't found anything on marketplace. Going to try and call this shop in NH cause they have a block listed for $165 but not sure if they still have any. If any of y'all happen to run into one or for some reason have one lying around I'd be keen to take it.

 

[MDH33]

So have run into a problem, the spun bearing on the front of the main took off too much material on the block and cannot be machined. So now it's either time to go with a new motor or find a new block. I'd personally prefer to put a 2F back into it and keep it all original, but not sure where I can find one. Done some hunting around and haven't found anything on marketplace. Going to try and call this shop in NH cause they have a block listed for $165 but not sure if they still have any. If any of y'all happen to run into one or for some reason have one lying around I'd be keen to take it.

Might try finding a rusty or junkyard fj60 to pull the 2F from. Should be easier than late model 40 and you could maybe find one with good bonus AC stuff.

 

[DanS]

Agreed. I’d give classic Cruisers a ring and see if they’ve got any kicking around.

Dan

 

[Yakubj]

Gave Classic a ring and they said they could get one for me for $1000. What junkyards around here might have a 60 I could try and pull from?