Advice on trails-first trip to Moab

[Jayay]

I'm leaving on my first trip to Moab in my Toyota 4 Runner off road 5th gen with 2" lift Ikon stage 7 suspension and 33" tires. I have some off road driving training and a few local trails. I've done Broken Arrow with this vehicle in Sedona without a problem without the lift and 33" tires and did fine.

We are going to do Fins & Things, Elephant Hill, and Hells Revenge. The guys I'm going with are all Jeep Rubicon drivers with good skills and equipment. My T4R has stock front and rear ends thus more overhang than the Jeeps. My question is will these trails present difficulty for (a) my vehicle and (b) my trained but relatively rookie driving skills. This group has good spotters. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Telly]

All three of those trails would be great for your first time out. Start with Fins & Things to get your feet wet. My advice would be start as early as possible to miss the line into Sand Flats and a bunch of rigs on the trail. No later than 7:30am would be smart.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Yes I agree with @Telly on getting into Sand Flats early. Fins and Things is a great trail. You will scrape your rear bumper and possibly the front on some of the obstacles, but no serious damage. You don't even need sliders for Fins.

I have not done the other two trails you mentioned but Elephant Hill is on my list. Be careful on Hells Revenge, we had a couple of flops at Cruise Moab on Hells Gate (or maybe one on hells gate and one on the bathtub). Anyway, I've not done it myself, but if you feel uncomfortable about it, skip it.

Another trail I would recommend is Seven Mile Rim. Great trail, nothing too serious, but I did use my sliders once. Enjoy and post some pics from your trip!

 

[mcgaskins]

You will definitely drag your bumpers on Fins and Hells, so keep that in mind if you are totally averse to damage. Hopefully you also have sliders as well which will save very expensive rocker damage. There are quite a few trails like Chicken Corners, Onion Creek, Dome Plateau, Cameo Cliffs, etc. where you can easily avoid any body damage, but get mentally prepared to redecorate the plastic a little bit for your planned trails. It's always better to go in with your eyes open and expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen!

 

[BlueSteel]

You will be fine on those trails. Top of the world is a fun trail in a 4Runner. Also poison spider is a good one.

 

[On the RX]

White rim was a good one. Not much for obstacles but the views are awesome!

 

[Corbet]

With good spotting you may not scrape bumpers. Sliders would be a greater concern if it were me. I wheeled my 80 for a long time on 33’s and no lift with very little damage to the OEM bumpers. The receiver hitch took a beating. As did the sliders.

 

[Jayay]

On Fins N Things I was doing well until I took a bad line and went over a drop I didn’t see. The left front tire came down hard and it punctured the sidewall on a rock. We changed the tire to the spare, a 32” tire vs the 33’s I am running. On the hard drop the power steering also went out, and the camber/caster/alignment was affected. I can drive the T4R on the road but without power steering. It will drive straight but with the steering wheel cocked at about 35 degrees. Several of the guys I am with are ex-Honda factory service reps (they drive Jeeps) and the closest they could figure is that the LF spindle was bent plus some sort of misfunction in the power steering rack (the pump is working). Their advice was to get the car to a dealer. Do you have any dealer recommendations close to Moab or competent mechanics in the area. I am from southern California and would rather not drive the car back to SoCal without power steering and having other potential problems. Thanks for the trail advice. It was exactly as your members described. Had fun while it lasted!!!

 

[Jayay]

All three of those trails would be great for your first time out. Start with Fins & Things to get your feet wet. My advice would be start as early as possible to miss the line into Sand Flats and a bunch of rigs on the trail. No later than 7:30am would be smart.

On Fins N Things I was doing well until I took a bad line and went over a drop I didn’t see. The left front tire came down hard and it punctured the sidewall on a rock. We changed the tire to the spare, a 32” tire vs the 33’s I am running. On the hard drop the power steering also went out, and the camber/caster/alignment was affected. I can drive the T4R on the road but without power steering. It will drive straight but with the steering wheel cocked at about 35 degrees. Several of the guys I am with are ex-Honda factory service reps (they drive Jeeps) and the closest they could figure is that the LF spindle was bent plus some sort of misfunction in the power steering rack (the pump is working). Their advice was to get the car to a dealer. Do you have any dealer recommendations close to Moab or competent mechanics in the area. I am from southern California and would rather not drive the car back to SoCal without power steering and having other potential problems. Thanks for the trail advice. It was exactly as your members described. Had fun while it lasted!!!

 

[Telly]

Sorry but I don't have a shop recommendation for you in Moab. There are a bunch of specialty 4x4 shops in Moab, you might just start calling around. I would NOT recommend you drive back to CA with bad steering and one wrong size tire! Good luck!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Moab will be tough. Member Brian Wilson is out there.

Call or get it to Keith Gillespie in Grand Junction, if you can. He's busy lately though so hard to say if he's got time for an emergency. I'd personally trust 100% whatever he suggests you do or other shops he says to use. If he can fit you in it'll be worth even paying for a flat bed truck.

970-462-2686
https://www.keithsgaragegj.com

Another option is Mike Goodknight at Metric Offroad here in GJ, too. He might have the spare parts laying around you need even if he isn't able to take on the work.

https://metricoffroad.com/

If neither of these pan out LMK. Hard to say but spindle or control arm seem plausible. Ruining the rack does, too. Did it puke fluid? Bending the frame isn't impossible, although probably not. Do the body panels in front still line up or do you have new uneven gaps? Also possible you damaged the wheel bearing and hub.

 

[Beachboy]

I live in Moab and take all of my Toyotas and classic cars into Pattiott Garage. 1080 Millcreek Dr. 435-260-1301. Tell them I sent you to see if they can work on it immediately. Also if you are there take a look at my 1976 Corvette being restored by them this winter.

 

[AlpineAccess]

You may have sheared a LCA camber plate tab. It's common with the force you described. The steering rack sounds like a different issue altogether.

 

[Jayay]

Thanks for all the help. I forgot to mention that I am getting a new 33" KM3 from Grand Tires Pros in Moab tomorrow. So I'll have identical tires all around. They are going to align it the best they can. I'll see how driveable it is after that. I'll give Pattiott Garage a call and then, depending on the result, try Keith Gillespie in GJ. Thanks again everyone.....John

 

[Jayay]

I wanted to let you guys know what happened to my T4R in Moab and how I got it fixed. I took DaveinDenver's advice and called Keith Gillespie in Grand Junction. He said he could help me out, but he was pretty backlogged and it would be a week or so before he could get to it. AAA wouldn't let me ride in the flatbed from Moab to Grand Junction, so I drove it without power steering to Grand Junction, first stopping at Discount Tire to leave the BFG KM3 33" blown tire to replace under warranty, then to Keith's Garage. We chatted, nice guy, and I left the car with him and flew home to Los Angeles. Keith called me a a week or so and told me that I had bent the spindle, damaged the ball joint necessitating replacing the lower control arm, blown the power steering rack and the power steering pump. He gave me a really fair quote. I gave him the go ahead (He also installed a body chop kit to accommodate the 33" tires). A week later it was ready to go. Keith picked up the wheel and tire for me at Discount Tire, made the repairs, and had the truck aligned. My wife and I flew to Grand Junction, picked up the car, and hit the road for home via Aspen and Santa Fe. The alignment was perfect but I had to have the tires rebalanced by Discount Tire in Santa Fe. Then I could drive straight and true at freeway speeds. So, thanks to all of you for your help and input. Finding Keith was really a godsend. By the way, Keith told me he had been seeing power steering rack issues with the Toyotas. He said I had blown the inner seals but not the outer seals, thus no leaking of power steering fluid. I've also learned that weld-on gusset plates for the spindles are common additions. I need to get that done as well. Thanks again guys.

 

[KC Masterpiece]

I wanted to let you guys know what happened to my T4R in Moab and how I got it fixed. I took DaveinDenver's advice and called Keith Gillespie in Grand Junction. He said he could help me out, but he was pretty backlogged and it would be a week or so before he could get to it. AAA wouldn't let me ride in the flatbed from Moab to Grand Junction, so I drove it without power steering to Grand Junction, first stopping at Discount Tire to leave the BFG KM3 33" blown tire to replace under warranty, then to Keith's Garage. We chatted, nice guy, and I left the car with him and flew home to Los Angeles. Keith called me a a week or so and told me that I had bent the spindle, damaged the ball joint necessitating replacing the lower control arm, blown the power steering rack and the power steering pump. He gave me a really fair quote. I gave him the go ahead (He also installed a body chop kit to accommodate the 33" tires). A week later it was ready to go. Keith picked up the wheel and tire for me at Discount Tire, made the repairs, and had the truck aligned. My wife and I flew to Grand Junction, picked up the car, and hit the road for home via Aspen and Santa Fe. The alignment was perfect but I had to have the tires rebalanced by Discount Tire in Santa Fe. Then I could drive straight and true at freeway speeds. So, thanks to all of you for your help and input. Finding Keith was really a godsend. By the way, Keith told me he had been seeing power steering rack issues with the Toyotas. He said I had blown the inner seals but not the outer seals, thus no leaking of power steering fluid. I've also learned that weld-on gusset plates for the spindles are common additions. I need to get that done as well. Thanks again guys.

Seems like a familiar story.....