• Jack-it Night: April 2024 RS Meeting Hey Guest: Wed. April 3rd is the next Rising Sun meeting, and you won't want to miss it. We're doing our annual offroad recovery equipment demonstration and trail skills training aka "Jack It Night." Meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. (early) Click here for all the details.

60 Series knuckle rebuild help?

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,953
Location
Denver
In the next 4-6 weeks I want to rebuild the knuckles and install new wheel bearings on the front end of my 60. I’ve never done this before but there’s no need for me to reinvent the wheel when a lot of folks have . Anybody down to help in exchange for beverage of choice/pizza?

Chase has graciously offered his new garage spot, so the work would happen in South Denver.

FYI - I have been watching a lot of YouTube videos and reading through stuff here and on Mud. I’m not going in unprepared. But experience can make things go a lot faster.
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
I miss the days when the wheel bearing packing party was an annual club event. Club mentors taught me all about my front end. I'm going to replace the hubs on my 60 some time soon, and replace the wheel studs as well. I need to check and make sure I already have all the seals and gaskets I need, I normally have a bunch extra.

Question for you Cruisertrash: Why replace the wheel bearings? I have never seen wheel bearings that were so worn that they needed to be replaced. I suppose if they ran dry and seized? Normally you just clean them, repack them and re-preload them.

WARNING! There is a ton of misinformation all over the interwebs, including you tube and mud! Don't simply assume that the information out there is correct! There are a lot of web wheelers who know not of what they type (and video!). The FSM is the best reference tool, and Haynes is right behind it.
 
Last edited:

Burt88

Trail Ready
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
345
Location
Montrose, CO
I miss the days when the wheel bearing packing party was an annual club event. Club mentors taught me all about my front end. I'm going to replace the hubs on my 60 some time soon, and replace the wheel studs as well. I need to check and make sure I already have all the seals and gaskets I need, I normally have a bunch extra.

Question for you Cruisertrash: Why replace the wheel bearings? I have never seen wheel bearings that were so worn that they needed to be replaced. I suppose if they ran dry and seized? Normally you just clean them, repack them and re-preload them.

WARNING! There is a ton of misinformation all over the interwebs, including you tube and mud! Don't simply assume that the information out there is correct! There are a lot of web wheelers who not of what they type (and video!). The FSM is the best reference tool, and Haynes is right behind it.
You certainly don't have to replace your wheel bearings when doing the knuckle job. I think it's more of a "might as well" or a peace of mind thing. The parts to do it are so inexpensive you might as well replace the bearings while everything's apart. Then you don't have to worry about inspecting the old bearings for any potential wear. That, and new and shiny metal stuff is always nice.
 

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,953
Location
Denver
@Rzeppa See above for my thought on wheel bearings - 248k miles and who knows if they’ve ever been replaced. The cost of the parts is easy for me to stomach, so why not just swap ‘em while I’m in there?

That being said, I’ve never done this so it’s hard for me to sort out the bad info on the web. Definitely a good call on advising me to be wary of what I read. I definitely appreciate it!
 

jps8460

Cruise Moab Committee
Cruise Moab Committee
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
2,911
Location
Broomfield
@Rzeppa See above for my thought on wheel bearings - 248k miles and who knows if they’ve ever been replaced. The cost of the parts is easy for me to stomach, so why not just swap ‘em while I’m in there?

That being said, I’ve never done this so it’s hard for me to sort out the bad info on the web. Definitely a good call on advising me to be wary of what I read. I definitely appreciate it!

You’ll get lots of good advice here. I’m with @Rzeppa in that it’s definitely more often they just need to be cleaned and properly repacked. While $70 in bearings is not hard to stomach for most, that mentality can end up costing much needed gas money for a cool trip to the mountains or desert :). Anyhow, I’ve been looking for a good excuse to get down to chases new shop, maybe I’ll stop by and grumble with a Busch light in my hand :)
 

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,953
Location
Denver
You’ll get lots of good advice here. I’m with @Rzeppa in that it’s definitely more often they just need to be cleaned and properly repacked. While $70 in bearings is not hard to stomach for most, that mentality can end up costing much needed gas money for a cool trip to the mountains or desert :). Anyhow, I’ve been looking for a good excuse to get down to chases new shop, maybe I’ll stop by and grumble with a Busch light in my hand :)
I’ll provide as many Busch Lights as you need to stand there and grumble at me when I’m turning the wrong wrench haha.

My schedule is pretty spotty and I’m waiting on those Govt Bux to buy parts. If you wanna help, shoot me a PM. 🙂
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
You certainly don't have to replace your wheel bearings when doing the knuckle job. I think it's more of a "might as well" or a peace of mind thing. The parts to do it are so inexpensive you might as well replace the bearings while everything's apart. Then you don't have to worry about inspecting the old bearings for any potential wear. That, and new and shiny metal stuff is always nice.

IIRC, wheel bearings will roughly double the cost of the job. I just checked Cruiser Outfitters and a knuckle kit is $90.00, add wheel bearings and it's $175.00. Marlin's charging $99.00 for the knuckle kit and $109.36 for a set of wheel bearings. In my experience knuckle bearings do often need to be replaced (I've had to do both my 40s and my 60). They get little indents in the races where the rollers sit when the wheels are pointed straight ahead. Plus they seldom get the love and attention (read: cleaned and repacked) that wheel bearings and birfs do since they take a lot more labor to get to. One thing to bear in mind is that the preload specs are a little different for new versus used wheel bearings.
 

Stuckinthe80s

Rising Sun Member
Staff member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
2,326
Location
Lakewood, CO
I should be able to help you out if I'm available. I haven't done 60 knuckles specifically but I've done 80 axles 4 or 5 times. There are some few minor differences but like what has already been said, the FSM is your friend. If you don't have one, there are many online resources for downloadable pdf's. I'll shoot you a PM for the deets.
 

nakman

Club Secretary
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
14,551
Location
north side
My reservation with replacing wheel bearings has always been pounding in the new races... I often worry if I got them seated just right or are they crooked just a tiny bit, or did a tiny shaving from my brass drift somehow get between the race and the lip of the hub, stuff like that. I've put new bearings & races in before only to discover a loose wheel bearing a couple weeks later, figured yup I probably didn't smack the race in far enough and it went in the rest of the way by itself. The method of smacking an old race out of the hub, then shrinking the new race in the freezer, then pounding it into a cavity with a hammer and drift just seems so archaic and wide open to variables... so unless one got hot, or really wet, or really dry, I'll stick to the camp that just repacks the bearing and slaps it back in.

Through experience I've developed a pretty good method of packing the bearings, as well as setting the preload (which is a different feel with new bearings/races compared to old bearings/races). Maybe I'll make a youtube for this.. will include my patent pending QC method for bearing preload also, which is you can't shake the tire & feel a loose bearing, and the hub is still cool enough to put your hand on after driving for a long while. tire shake=tighten the inner nut more. hot hub=back it off a bit.
 

CardinalFJ60

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,483
Location
Lafayette
Such great advice here!!

It is a great experience and Recall @MDH33 helping me a bunch in my garage. Honestly, I couldn’t do it without another set of eyes and hands anymore but Things are in good shape on mine still... after a bunch of years. knock on wood. thanks Martin!!
 

MountainGoat

Club Treasurer
Staff member
Cruise Moab Committee
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
3,053
Location
Evergreen, CO
Such great advice here!!

It is a great experience and Recall @MDH33 helping me a bunch in my garage. Honestly, I couldn’t do it without another set of eyes and hands anymore but Things are in good shape on mine still... after a bunch of years. knock on wood. thanks Martin!!
Ditto here. Martin we miss you man!
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
will include my patent pending QC method for bearing preload also, which is you can't shake the tire & feel a loose bearing, and the hub is still cool enough to put your hand on after driving for a long while. tire shake=tighten the inner nut more. hot hub=back it off a bit.

I use the Marlin fish scale I won at a Cruise Moab Raffle. One of the things that Robbie taught me is how important it is to rotate the wheel while tightening the preload nut, this squishes the new grease to a super thin film in the contact area between the bearings and race. I rotate both CW and CCW as Robbie showed me. Basically you tighten some, then rotate, then measure with the fish scale on the wheel stud, repeat until proper weight on fish scale, and as you mentioned and I mentioned upthread, new bearings are going to have a higher pull than used bearings (I forget the actual number, it's in a manual somewhere). I have an illustrated booklet (PN 223-25) I got from SOR years ago that is just front axle service, super handy!
 

AimCOTaco

Cruise Moab Committee
Staff member
Cruise Moab Committee
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
2,248
Location
Longmont, CO
Like Tim, disturbing the races (or watching folks wail on them with junky tools) makes me nervous. But when replacement is necessary I use thermal expansion to help install the new stuff.

-Get all truck parts super duper clean and deburred. -
-Use quality bearings.
-I put the OD parts under a heat lamp and the ID parts in the freezer and leave them for several hours.
-Then just install quickly with little more than finger pressure and know they are home/square/undamaged.

Lots of ways to do it but since its a rarity for me I like the overkill advantage of exploiting a little material science.
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
-Get all truck parts super duper clean and deburred. -
Hahahaha One of the things Mark Whatley (former tech guy for Toyota Trails ) espoused was that cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to building engines and I have taken that to heart on building my engines. My catty corner behind me neighbor was building a Chevy 350 in his backyard in the dirt in 2012 at the same time I was rebuilding the F for my '71 '40. I asked him "aren't you worried about the dirt"? He said nah he wasn't worried. His motor lasted less than an hour before it spun a bearing. My F motor in my '40 is still going strong 50k miles later.

Same goes for anyone's front (or rear if you have an 80 with a FF) axle...cleanliness is next to godliness.

One of the biggies in our used to annual wheel bearing packing party was a good solvent sink. Last time we had one was at Slee's and he has a steam cleaner. Clean those bearings before you repack them!
 

Cruisertrash

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,953
Location
Denver
Great advice from everybody here. I’m taking a lot of notes. Thanks for chiming in 🙂
 
Top