Setting up APRS for Wheeling n' Stuff

[Stuckinthe80s]

You're probably right. I know that is one of the things I did to finally be able to transmit properly. I forgot about the mobilinkd app to tweak the settings on send and receive so I downloaded it and got it setup somewhat close last night. I'll post up some screen shots after lunch.

Thanks!

 

[DaveInDenver]

See post #61: https://risingsun4x4club.org/xf/thr...for-wheeling-n-stuff.28698/page-4#post-344272

I put a couple of links to tuning the TNC (modem) and radio as Andy mentions. You need to set things on both receive and transmit.

There's two aspects to APRS from a technical standpoint. First is to understand it's a time division multiple access system. One station at a time gets full bandwidth. So you need to be kind to other users and not hog the network with lots of position beacons.

Second is it's a modem over a voice channel, so you have a stack up of issues (e.g pre-emphasis/de-emphasis). Just like on voice you know how some people are loud, some quiet, some have no background noise, some are barely audible over the static? It's the same with digital. Modems are really good about tolerating but there's a limit.

That it works at all is pretty amazing. The reason it does is being 1200 baud it's highly tolerant. On UHF we typically use 9600 baud and in that case which radios and TNC work well together is much smaller.

 

[DaveInDenver]

@DaveInDenver can you post up some pics of your data radio setup? I know you've posted them on the forum before but I couldn't find them. I figured this is a good thread to capture the setup for future reference.

You want the actual hardware?

I have two mobile stations but mostly it's the Argent Tracker 3 stuffed inside a Friendcom FC-301/D radio. This TNC gets the comment "T3-301" when you see my locations.

The other I have built up is a Byonics TinyTrak4 connected to a Maxon (sometimes branded Midland) SD-125E radio. This one I comment with "TinyTrak4" IIRC.

Both radios are 5 watt industrial data radios. You'd normally see them inside cabinets for remote sensing or telemetry, like all sorts of things - river gages, weather stations, highway sensors, etc.

In both cases the TNC external connector goes to a 'Y' cable with one port configured for serial GPS (the black backshell) and the other to a serial<->Bluetooth adapter (the board so professionally protected by the rubber band and static bag).

 

[DouglasVB]

Woah that's a sexy hardware setup, Dave! 🥵🥵

I'm starting to think I need to setup an IGate or Digipeater at my parents place. The closest digipeater to them just burned down and they already were in a hole where packets don't normally get out. Of course I still need an APRS setup in my truck so there's that 😁

 

[nakman]

Ok I'm jumping in here. So far I have installed a Yaesu FT-350r radio in the 60. And I went to aprs.fi and created an account. But that's as far as I am here... next step is figuring out how to let my radio know who I am, then configuring it to send out my location? When I turn the radio on, I see the callsign of the guy I bought the radio from, I feel like I've been in every menu 3x now and can't find where to change that. time to rtfm, again..

 

[DaveInDenver]

Make sure your FTM-350 has the GPS installed. It was optional, should be a bump on the back of the control head.

There's a whole APRS manual for the FTM-350:

https://www.yaesu.com/downloadFile....EH033M115.pdf&FileContentType=application/pdf

It has a flow chart of what you need to do. Put in call sign -> activate modem (1200 baud) -> select SSID ('-9' is generally good for a message-capable APRS station) -> select frequency (144.390) -> use manual transmission for now and a path of 'WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1' if it asks.

Showing up on aprs.fi is pretty far down the list of things that have to go right. It's not necessary to use aprs.fi for APRS generally. For your station to make it on aprs.fi you need to be in range of what's called an iGate, which is an Internet-connected APRS station. Not all APRS digital repeaters (digipeater) are iGates.

Before you worry too much about aprs.fi you need to make sure you're transmitting fine. Using an HT to monitor is quite helpful. Make sure you hear modem noise on the air coincident with pushing "beacon position" on the FTM-350. Once you're there we can take the next steps.

 

[satchel]

I have an odd situation relating to this. I finally got a tablet in and the serial connector to hook my Kenwood 710ga to it, and I can see all the packages and locations of people around me using the app from the play store, but if I download the most recent osm version I can get the offline map working but the same settings don't allow me to receive any packets on the aprsdroid. I see them coming through the Kenwood, but nothing is making it to the tablet for any osm version.

Edit - never mind. Looks like the older versions just take 5 or 10 minutes to post the packets the radio has been receiving vs the one on play store updating with each receipt.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I have an odd situation relating to this. I finally got a tablet in and the serial connector to hook my Kenwood 710ga to it, and I can see all the packages and locations of people around me using the app from the play store, but if I download the most recent osm version I can get the offline map working but the same settings don't allow me to receive any packets on the aprsdroid. I see them coming through the Kenwood, but nothing is making it to the tablet for any osm version.

Edit - never mind. Looks like the older versions just take 5 or 10 minutes to post the packets the radio has been receiving vs the one on play store updating with each receipt.

Are you sure you're seeing RF packets from the radio rather than having them pulled off the APRS-IS from the Internet?

I don't have a lag with the latest APRSdroid. When a packet is heard and decoded it shows up, which you can watch in real time if you push the little clock looking icon at the top (this takes you to the APRSdroid Log screen) and monitor by listening to 144.390.

I will mention that when my radio and TNC are powered but no APRS client is connected the TNC will queue packets it hears for a while. Then next time I connect ("Start Tracking") a flood of them will show up. So maybe that's all you saw?

I don't know if the Kenwood TNC does that or not. With my Argent Tracker3 the recieved timestamps on the packets will be from when the TNC heard them, not the current time, when they flood in and it'll be tick-tick-tick one right after another. Normally that can't happen, you should see at least a couple of seconds between packets.

 

[satchel]

Are you sure you're seeing RF packets from the radio rather than having them pulled off the APRS-IS from the Internet?

I don't have a lag with the latest APRSdroid. When a packet is heard and decoded it shows up, which you can watch in real time if you push the little clock looking icon at the top (this takes you to the APRSdroid Log screen) and monitor by listening to 144.390.

I will mention that when my radio and TNC are powered but no APRS client is connected the TNC will queue packets it hears for a while. Then next time I connect ("Start Tracking") a flood of them will show up. So maybe that's all you saw?

I don't know if the Kenwood TNC does that or not. With my Argent Tracker3 the recieved timestamps on the packets will be from when the TNC heard them, not the current time, when they flood in and it'll be tick-tick-tick one right after another. Normally that can't happen, you should see at least a couple of seconds between packets.

Pretty sure I am getting it from the radio, yes. I do not have it set up for APRS-IS connection, I am using the Kenwood (NMEA waypoint) connection. I have also turned off all outside connections to the tablet. No bluetooth, no wifi, it has no cellular, so I don't know how it would get the info any other way than via the radio it is connected to.

The latest APRSdroid from google play works just as you describe, but the OSM version I am using with an offline map is where I am getting this issue. If I push the clock on the APRSdroid I can see them flow in real time with the play store version, but when I click the clock on the OSM it sits there for 10 mins, then after 10 mins I get a flood of the last 10 mins worth of data over the next minute or so. This keeps happening every 10 minutes after I hit start tracking on the tablet, almost like it is a setting. And the connections I see are the same ones as what is coming through the radio, just delayed.

I basically set it up exactly like this guy did, only I'm using the OSM (APRSdroid-gl-2018-11-18_osm.apk) and created an offline map from BBBike.

 

[satchel]

Also thanks for all the detailed info here @DaveInDenver. You made it so easy a caveman can do it.

 

[DaveInDenver]

You don't have to use that old 11/18/2018 special OSM version anymore. The main release has an option to use OSM maps now. It still requires Mapsforge v3 (which is limiting) but at least the bug fixes and any new features are rolled in.

I'm using v1.6.0 downloaded directly as an APK loaded on an ancient Motorola Droid MAXX running Android 4.4.4 on it. Seriously ancient. I'm pretty sure there's no difference between getting it through the Play Store and loading an APK directly as I've done.



Click the 'eye' looking icon and it'll bring up what map source you want to use.



If you use openstreetmap.org it'll look for the local file.

 

[satchel]

You don't have to use that old 11/18/2018 special OSM version anymore. The main release has an option to use OSM maps now. It still requires Mapsforge v3 (which is limiting) but at least the bug fixes and any new features are rolled in.

I'm using v1.6.0 downloaded directly as an APK loaded on an ancient Motorola Droid MAXX running Android 4.4.4 on it. Seriously ancient. I'm pretty sure there's no difference between getting it through the Play Store and loading an APK directly as I've done.

View attachment 95096

Click the 'eye' looking icon and it'll bring up what map source you want to use.

View attachment 95095

If you use openstreetmap.org it'll look for the local file.

View attachment 95097

Oh sweet! I did basically this, thinking I could just update the map location to my downloaded map but it wasn't working, so maybe it was from not checking that openstreetmap.org button. I'll give that a try later, very cool! I'm assuming if the map I made from BBBike was working on the old version it will work on the new one right? I'll give it a go and update back.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Oh sweet! I did basically this, thinking I could just update the map location to my downloaded map but it wasn't working, so maybe it was from not checking that openstreetmap.org button. I'll give that a try later, very cool! I'm assuming if the map I made from BBBike was working on the old version it will work on the new one right? I'll give it a go and update back.

Yeah, I believe BBBike is producing maps using the v3 Mapsforge library. You have to watch this because the current Mapsforge library is v5 and won't display in APRSdroid. So compatibility depends on the source of the map.

FWIW, I use these maps: https://www.openandromaps.org/en

He still has archived the old v3 maps from 2019. These maps are nice because they have topo data beyond the basic OSM.

 

[satchel]

Interesting, I may try those maps out as well.

Anyway, you are the man @DaveInDenver! Didn't even realize I could toggle that setting on the play store version and get offline mapping working, but all looks great. This is officially my favorite thing of 2021 . It's the little things.

 

[PabloCruise]

Nic (@Stuckinthe80s) asked a question about APRSdroid maps. It's a reoccurring question so perhaps consolidating a few things again.

APRSdroid - Option #1 (E-Z install)

https://aprsdroid.org

There are tons of versions of APRSdroid out there. The most typical version is found in the Google Play store and downloaded like any other app. This one should be the most current and capable with the widest range of devices and OS versions. It costs $5 which as I understand it more or less covers the cost of putting the app in the store.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aprsdroid.app

Currently the released version should be 1.6.0a and dated August 29, 2020.

This version AFAIK only works with Google Maps online. The maps may be cached but I don't use this version to say for sure.

APRSdroid - Option #2 (Involved install)

https://aprsdroid.org/osm/

There is a version of APRSdroid built to use OpenStreetMaps (abbreviated OSM). This version was built to use the Mapsforge rendering engine.

To those not familiar, Mapsforge is a tool a developer can integrate into their app that takes care of dealing with vector maps. It does what Google Maps does - assembling tiles based on your location - but just completely offline.

This version is NOT available through the Play store

To get it you have to download and install an actual binary, which Google calls an "apk" file. Go to the "Offline Maps" tab on the APRSdroid website and it'll explain some of this. Suffice to say OSM only exists in purpose built versions.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The most current OSM apk is "APRSdroid-gl-2018-11-18_osm.apk". If you think you want to try OSM maps install this one first. If you install the 8/29/2020 version from the Play store it's not easy to go backwards with app versions in Android.

Using OSM maps

Once you get 2018-11-18_osm installed you need to supply a map. It won't look for one online, only locally.

One option is the all the U.S. in one map that KS9N compiled. There is a direct 3GB download but if you can try to use torrent instead (links for both options on the APRSdroid website).

The KS9N maps is fairly old being compiled in 2013. In the OSM world this is downright ancient so you might find a lot of missing information. But it gets you up and going.

Another option is OpenAndroidMaps.

https://www.openandromaps.org/en/downloads/usa_en

The hitch here is he's dropped support for the version of Mapsforge used in APRSdroid (which is v3) so you have to dig and find the archived version. If you download a v4 map it will not display in APRSdroid.

View attachment 88704

By default APRSdroid will look for /sdcard/aprsdroid.map to display. However I set up my device with a "/sdcard/maps" folder containing several OpenAndroidMaps files that sites off the file system root. In APRSdroid preferences you can point directly to a map like I show below with any file name given the .map extension.

View attachment 88705


Hopefully this works. The key is to get the 2018-11-18_osm for OSM and not from the Play store if you want completely offline maps.

I should mention that I think Android 10 won't load exceptionally old apps such as the OSM version. If you're on the bleeding edge Android OS you might have no choice but to use the Play version. I run Android 4.something on an unactivated phone.

Thanks Dave!
I was thinking about APRS again recently (probably a direct correlation to getting the Pig out).
It seems like when I do, it is always mapping that dulls my enthusiasm.
This post was really solid, I think I can follow up on this.
Question - if my Tab A is on Android v9, should I just stay there, and avoid going to 10, based on your above ^ comments?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thanks Dave!
I was thinking about APRS again recently (probably a direct correlation to getting the Pig out).
It seems like when I do, it is always mapping that dulls my enthusiasm.
This post was really solid, I think I can follow up on this.
Question - if my Tab A is on Android v9, should I just stay there, and avoid going to 10, based on your above ^ comments?

It should be even easier now. Just download the version from the Play Store, v1.6.0 is what I have.

You still need to deal with getting the right maps stuff if you want offline OSM maps. The official version can do both OSM and online Google maps, so as long as your phone can do data to can have maps right away and switch between the two types later.

I'm sorry that I can't speak to Android 10 but from what I've heard there were a few bugs tied to it so it would be my opinion to stick with Android 9 if it's stable and does what you need. Get APRSdroid working with a known good OS and then we can look into whether 10 is safe or not.

 

[nakman]

Ok just gonna keep kicking this thread back to the top. I want to buy another ham radio. I keep thinking I'd one day appreciate APRS, but my last effort with my FTM-350 was a failed attempt as I learned I don't appear to have the appropriate APRS add-on doodad... I am trying to not have a bunch of extra stuff strung about, would like a single, concise unit that does it all. I am also not all that excited with the OS of this radio, for example I still can't figure out how to hit the 145.310 repeater even though I swear the settings are right. It's like I key up, see the little bar moving, but I can't get that repeater to talk back to me. But ignore that for the moment, could just be my mag mount is off.

I think all I really want is dual band monitoring, and the occasional ability to APRS. But I can't find any other radio beyond a new FTM-400. I found a thread on qrz.com where a couple guys recommend the Kenwood TM-D710G however I can't seem to find one that's actually available. Anyone have an alternative suggestion? I'd like the removable faceplate to be as small as possible also, but that doesn't seem realistic here.

 

[satchel]

I'll have to keep looking for where I got my TM-710g, but looks like there are some on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-TM-D...6467&keywords=tm-d710ga&qid=1628799903&sr=8-1

For what it's worth, setting up aprs on that radio was super easy. You are happy to check out my setup if you like, though I do still need to replace the tablet portion with something a little more speedy. The radio itself shows a lot of that info on it as well.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Ok just gonna keep kicking this thread back to the top. I want to buy another ham radio. I keep thinking I'd one day appreciate APRS, but my last effort with my FTM-350 was a failed attempt as I learned I don't appear to have the appropriate APRS add-on doodad... I am trying to not have a bunch of extra stuff strung about, would like a single, concise unit that does it all. I am also not all that excited with the OS of this radio, for example I still can't figure out how to hit the 145.310 repeater even though I swear the settings are right. It's like I key up, see the little bar moving, but I can't get that repeater to talk back to me. But ignore that for the moment, could just be my mag mount is off.

I think all I really want is dual band monitoring, and the occasional ability to APRS. But I can't find any other radio beyond a new FTM-400. I found a thread on qrz.com where a couple guys recommend the Kenwood TM-D710G however I can't seem to find one that's actually available. Anyone have an alternative suggestion? I'd like the removable faceplate to be as small as possible also, but that doesn't seem realistic here.

The FTM-350 has the same APRS capability as the FTM-400. The screen isn't touch sensitive and it's not as immersive, but all the same functionality is there. The one huge feature the -400 has is a virtual keyboard and that's uber nice compared to spinning the dial and punching up/down buttons.

The only thing you may never have gotten for the FTM-350 is the GPS dongle that went in the back of the radio face. If you didn't get that I doubt you'll be able to now. You can feed it GPS through the data port on the back of the radio body, though.

What's confusing you about setting it up? Maybe we can help. You're amongst friends, it's a safe place.

BTW, your repeater problem. I bet you have tone squelch turned on. With repeaters you know about tones and the 145.310 machine needs a 88.5 Hz tone to open on your TX. The machine then turns around and transmits a 123.0 Hz tone, which you can optionally use on receive. You don't have to use a tone on receive and I usually don't use one.

So two things come to mind. One is that you are using tone squelch and have it set to 88.5 Hz. You need to do what's called split tones, a different tone for TX (88.5) and RX (123.0). Or you can just turn off tone squelch (TSQ) and use carrier squelch (CSQ), which requires no tones for your radio to receive just a signal be present. As a test use the VFO to listen to 145.310 like you'd do simplex and see if you hear traffic. It's also possible you have the offset wrong, it's a minus 600KHz and when you key you're going +600KHz instead.

 

[DanInDenver]

Tim

I have the TM-710A not the 710G Original box, programming cable, some software discs, etc. I have in the past set it up for APRS using a tablet and APRSDroid. I'd been interested in a trade if you would like the radio. Cross band repeat must have been easy as I figured it out.
Used the cross band and my handheld to chat with you in Telluride when a razer rolled on Black Bear, a few years back.