• Jack-it Night: April 2024 RS Meeting Hey Guest: Wed. April 3rd is the next Rising Sun meeting, and you won't want to miss it. We're doing our annual offroad recovery equipment demonstration and trail skills training aka "Jack It Night." Meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. (early) Click here for all the details.

Mustard w/ Mayo - 40 series build

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
full


Decided I would start a build thread because I hope to get some advice from others who have “been there and done that”, and in turn will share my experience. To start things off this is my first land cruiser - I know “gasp” - what have I been doing? Well, I have owned every generation of Toyota pickup except the most current Tacoma. It all started back in high school with a 22re and bigger tires… I’ll spare you the rest because this is a cruiser forum.

I recently purchased a 1976 FJ40 from a club member thanks to a buying advice thread that I posted. The 40 has some good, and some bad. The good is that it fits my budget and nothing has to be “undone” because it is stock and not running. The bad is the rust.

The name of my thread is “mustard with mayo” because of the paint on the 40. Mustard was how it came from the factory and it has been slathered with mayo. Hence the mustard with mayo name.

The 40 was living up Boulder canyon. Now it is hibernating in Gunnison while I make a build plan and start accumulating plans. Here is my starting point. I’ll let the pictures do some talking.

full

full

full


What you can’t see is an H55f transmission that is installed and a partially installed 2f replacement engine. The previous owner started replacing the engine and doing the transmission swap, but never finished. Unfortunately, I think the 2F might not be worth much now because the valve cover was not installed when the 40 was moved to outside storage where it sat for a couple years. Anyone have experience with a rusty valve train?

full

full


Luckily, I didn’t buy it for the stock engine. My plan is to swap in a modern Toyota engine to move this 40 along with the 21st century.

You might have noticed the rusty tub and the soft top bows. My other plan is to stretch the tub 14-18” behind the doors. This will allow me more interior space and also provide a longer wheelbase for a better ride. My next post will focus on my evolving plans for the tub.
 

gr8fulabe

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
1,590
Location
Boulder Canyon
FCF2B2BA-DDFB-4E6A-9ACF-3EABCE8D2EF9.jpeg


One of my favorite memories in that truck! Back when it was still camo from the previous owner in N.C. This was us all going up to the cabin above Mayflower Gulch near Copper to camp for a weekend. Feel free to curse my name in this build thread. I’ll own all the PO problems & screw ups. I also found the manual for this truck the other day. I’ll hand it off next time we will be on the same area!
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
A couple thoughts ( I have my frame-off 1976 40 about 3/4 way around the lake). I was about to spout off about how the H55F isn't a good idea for a 40 due to the super short rear driveshaft it requires for that model, but if you are going to stretch the rig then no problem. I loved the H55F in my HZJ75 and love the one in My FJ60. Obviously if you are going to stretch the body you'll need a plan to stretch the fame. The most common solutions I have seen are either using an FJ45 frame or an FJ55 frame; FJ60 frames are way different, and while I have seen 40 bodies on all kinds of frames (80s, 75s, etc.) you will get into extreme fabrication. You can also just weld extensions to your 40 frame, but a 45 frame is probably the easiest. Over the years I have seen some really cool 4 door FJ40s and extra cab FJ45s at Cruise Moab.

Everyone who knows me knows that I am a huge fan of the stock F series motor. Letting the valve train assembly be exposed to atmospheric moisture is probably not as big a problem as you might have been thinking. If the rest of the motor is good (hopefully running when pulled, right Abe?) just disassemble the valve train, scotch bright the valve stems and lap the valves and it should be good to go. One way or the other you'll still have to invest in a new head gasket and manifold gasket to do that job, but that's way cheaper than ANY of the alternatives.

If you're thinking about repowering the rig, go up a couple orders of magnitude and consider the 5 figures it will cost to do it right (Joe Calleja chages $25k for a crate vortec SBC conversion in a 40, or did a decade or so the last time we chatted about it over the campfire). I wouldn't go there if it were my rig, but a lot of people do , from SBCs to 1HZs to even 5VZs (lookin' at you Uncle Ben ;). If I was going to do a repower on a vintage 40, I'd certainly consider 2UZ (the 4.7 gasser that goes in UZJ100s), and the 1VD V8 turbo diesel that goes in non-USA Land Cruisers all over the world. The former would likely be a lot less expensive if you could get a good junkyeard low miles one out of a 1st gen Tundra or Sequoia along with matching tranny and t-case. The latter is certainly more exotic and more expensive but front half cuts can be had from down under.

If it were my rig, the first order of business would be getting it running and driving before doing any mods whatsoever, however the H55F may preclude that depending on the driveshaft situation (oh then there's that pesky parking brake issue with an H55F/split case and stock, non-parking brake rear drums in a USA-spec '76 40...)
 

nakman

Club Secretary
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
14,551
Location
north side
Remember there is/was a stock height 40 with 5 speed for sale here recenently.. so it can be do.
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
Remember there is/was a stock height 40 with 5 speed for sale here recenently.. so it can be do.
Of course it can be done, it's just that the rear driveshaft ends up being [exaggeration]about 2" long[/exaggeration]. Mike Koons has an H55F in his 40. In a non-stretched 40, they work better with an SBC, with the front of the motor moved as far forward as possible.
 

Stuckinthe80s

Rising Sun Member
Staff member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
2,326
Location
Lakewood, CO
Looking forward to seeing this build! I wouldn't worry too much about that head. It probably needs a good once over anyway and a quick valve job will clean up any surface rust that has built up. You'll probably be able to reuse the old valves if they weren't already worn when it was parked. If you're doing an engine swap, that's all a moot point anyhow.
 

gr8fulabe

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
1,590
Location
Boulder Canyon
Looking forward to seeing this build! I wouldn't worry too much about that head. It probably needs a good once over anyway and a quick valve job will clean up any surface rust that has built up. You'll probably be able to reuse the old valves if they weren't already worn when it was parked. If you're doing an engine swap, that's all a moot point anyhow.

The valve cover is off because the head was just rebuilt with new valves, etc... at Gunn Automotive back in the day. The valve cover wasn't on as it had been stored in a friend's garage while we were working on it, and when he had to move we pulled it all up to my house in a hurry. At the time I figured it was fine with the valve cover just sitting on there & the hood closed. So live & learn in that regard.

But assuming that rust doesn't hurt any of those things, hopefully the valves & seals & such are still in perfect shape. Hopefully you guys with more knowledge can help advise. At a minimum, I know that Travis has serious skills, so I'm sure he'll know what's possibly salvageable vs. not. Going to be fun to watch at any rate!
 

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
One of my favorite memories in that truck! Back when it was still camo from the previous owner in N.C. This was us all going up to the cabin above Mayflower Gulch near Copper to camp for a weekend. Feel free to curse my name in this build thread. I’ll own all the PO problems & screw ups. I also found the manual for this truck the other day. I’ll hand it off next time we will be on the same area!

Abe - Thanks for posting up the great picture with 3 big dogs in the 40! 'm assuming you had a passenger too whom took the photo? It would be awesome to have the manual for the truck. It is great to have you - the PO - following along to help out with any mysteries that you might know about.

A couple thoughts ( I have my frame-off 1976 40 about 3/4 way around the lake). I was about to spout off about how the H55F isn't a good idea for a 40 due to the super short rear driveshaft it requires for that model, but if you are going to stretch the rig then no problem. I loved the H55F in my HZJ75 and love the one in My FJ60. Obviously if you are going to stretch the body you'll need a plan to stretch the fame. The most common solutions I have seen are either using an FJ45 frame or an FJ55 frame; FJ60 frames are way different, and while I have seen 40 bodies on all kinds of frames (80s, 75s, etc.) you will get into extreme fabrication. You can also just weld extensions to your 40 frame, but a 45 frame is probably the easiest. Over the years I have seen some really cool 4 door FJ40s and extra cab FJ45s at Cruise Moab.

Everyone who knows me knows that I am a huge fan of the stock F series motor. Letting the valve train assembly be exposed to atmospheric moisture is probably not as big a problem as you might have been thinking. If the rest of the motor is good (hopefully running when pulled, right Abe?) just disassemble the valve train, scotch bright the valve stems and lap the valves and it should be good to go. One way or the other you'll still have to invest in a new head gasket and manifold gasket to do that job, but that's way cheaper than ANY of the alternatives.

If you're thinking about repowering the rig, go up a couple orders of magnitude and consider the 5 figures it will cost to do it right (Joe Calleja chages $25k for a crate vortec SBC conversion in a 40, or did a decade or so the last time we chatted about it over the campfire). I wouldn't go there if it were my rig, but a lot of people do , from SBCs to 1HZs to even 5VZs (lookin' at you Uncle Ben ;). If I was going to do a repower on a vintage 40, I'd certainly consider 2UZ (the 4.7 gasser that goes in UZJ100s), and the 1VD V8 turbo diesel that goes in non-USA Land Cruisers all over the world. The former would likely be a lot less expensive if you could get a good junkyeard low miles one out of a 1st gen Tundra or Sequoia along with matching tranny and t-case. The latter is certainly more exotic and more expensive but front half cuts can be had from down under.

If it were my rig, the first order of business would be getting it running and driving before doing any mods whatsoever, however the H55F may preclude that depending on the driveshaft situation (oh then there's that pesky parking brake issue with an H55F/split case and stock, non-parking brake rear drums in a USA-spec '76 40...)

Thanks for all the input Jeff! I am not positive I will keep the H55f - it depends on what I end up choosing for an engine. I am dead set on keeping it a manual transmission. The plan is to cut my 40 frame and stretch it. Unless you know of a 45 frame that needs a new home?

That is good you think the 2F valve train can be cleaned up easily. I was hoping it might be that simple. I noticed the valve train before I agreed to purchase the 40 from Abe. I'm not sure it is worth my time/money to get the 2F running because I'm sure there are a lot of missing bolts and probably some other little bits. Having done past projects like this - I know the little stuff is a pain to track down and can cost a lot if piecing it together. A donor 2F rig to pull parts from would make it a fairly easy task, but I don't know of one yet.

Engine swaps do cost a lot of money, but having rebuilt a 22r engine completely and also having done a 5VZ swap - I would definitely do the swap again. It will certainly cost me at least a couple thousand dollars for a good engine/donor vehicle and then I will need all the parts to freshen it up as well as conversion parts. The shops doing engine swaps should be charging $25k in order for them to stay in business and make a living.

I'm thinking either a 3rz or a 2uz swap. I have a 3rz 4runner already that is a complete driving rig that could be a donor. I'm sure some of you are thinking - why a 3rz? Simplicity. It makes decent power in stock form, gets great gas mileage, and there is always the supercharger/turbo option to make as much power as I want. If I go 3rz then I will also put in the matching W59 transmission along with a dual case. I do realize this means a different rear axle, but I need to do that no matter what for an e-brake setup.

The other option is going with a 2uz or 1uz by finding a donor Tundra or Lexus. The downside is the cost of the bellhousing to go from the UZ to H55f. It is at least $2k from Dellow out of Austrailia and it sounds like they can be a pain to get. I could do a R150 trans instead because those bellhousing adapters are a lot cheaper and easier to get. The header/exhaust setup for a 2uz looks to be a fair amount of work. A 2uz would certainly put a smile on the drivers face. The 40 would be a good 1500 lbs lighter than the most basic Tundra the 2uz came in...
 

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
As I mentioned initially, I plan to stretch the body to gain more space and have a longer wheelbase. The easiest is to stretch the body behind the door at the body seam (in front of the wheel). I am looking at adding either 14” or 18”. Here is a quick photoshop showing the 14” vs the 18”. Do you guys prefer the 14” or 18” look?

full

This is not going to be a rock crawler with giant tires - it is going to be more of a resto-mod similar to what is photoshopped. I prefer the look of Proffitt’s builds and the FJ Company builds over ICON (they look a little too Cali for me). I am planning to run 33's or slightly larger, but nothing huge. Below are pics of a couple rigs I like the look of - these are longer wheelbase than what I am planning, but they are also running 37" tires and more built $$$ than what I'm after.

1005328_10201170526419587_672369198_n-jpg.937531

full


As far as achieving the stretched tub I see two options. The first being Aqualu. They sell a stretched 3/4 tub and can do a 14” or 18” stretch. They happen to be offering free shipping to Easter Jeep Safari in April so I have the opportunity of that, but I need to commit very soon. The cost of the 3/4 tub from them is basically $4500.

The other option is I purchase a stock tub that has an acceptable amount of rust. Classic Cruisers is only an hour away so I’m thinking I’ll go check out what they have. I think their tubs start at around $1500. Then I would probably need a replacement sill, maybe quarter panels, and the stretch kit from White Rhino (https://whiterhinofab.com/collections/toyota-land-cruiser). So I would be into that option for at least $3,000.

A third option is that Robbie in Boulder has a Teseven tub in that is new, but a reject. They built an early tub on a late frame jig so in order to get it to work it requires body mount modification. He is willing to sell it for $3500. Then I would need the stretch kit from White Rhino too so I’d be into it for close to $4500.

I’m debating between the Aqualu and purchasing a stock tub that needs some repair. What do you guys think?
 
Last edited:

nakman

Club Secretary
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
14,551
Location
north side

rover67

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
9,291
Location
Boulder, Co
I prefer the longer length that you showed above...

As far as the tub goes, I'd decide steel or aluminum and either way go with a new one. Doing the rust repair will take a lot of time and you could be working on the rest of the rig. Without the rust repair you could move along pretty quickly on the project.

The tub Robbie has is very nice. As far as steel options go it seems like a bargain even with the mount work. That part seems easy on a rust free, new body. I have always liked the aqualu tubs and the few I've seen in person look great as long as you are OK with the differences in stuff like the pinch welds on the front to back part.

But yeah, I'd gladly pay an extra few grand to avoid the hours doing rust repair. It will be a drop in the bucket when you are done and save you a ton of time and energy.
 

Rzeppa

Rising Sun Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
8,217
Location
Kittredge CO, USA
The 40 would be a good 1500 lbs lighter than the most basic Tundra the 2uz came in...
Really? I didn't realize Tundras were that heavy. A stock 40 with 2F is about 4k pounds. An SBC conversion will shave around 200 pounds off that (and get you an endo if you're rollin' Nolen LOL)

My previous advice still holds...if it were me and my project, I'd get it driving and running first!
 

White Stripe

Hard Core 4+
Joined
May 5, 2015
Messages
1,282
Location
Milky way galaxy
I'm really happy with my aqualu. The front door gap is a bit bigger than stock, not sure if that bothers you. Also, I don't like the aqualu transmission tunnel, so I modified the steel tunnel to fit, I also narrowed the steel tunnel to give me more foot room on the driver floor. Shipping if I recall cost me 500 bucks. I think both the 14" and 18" look good. A 4 door tub would be really cool too. Aqualu makes 4 door tubs. A guy in Mississippi is making steel 4 door tubs that look factory as if Toyota made them. But if your going to stretch it may as well go the full 18". I cut the old tub off in March, and had the 40 painted and back on the road by September with my Aquala. Personally if I was going to do all this work, I would start with a 75 or older so you don't have to worry about emissions when doing a engine swap. I also would just to a LS swap, but that's me. You should get 20MPG with a LS.
20170522_063228.jpg
 
Last edited:

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
I prefer the longer length that you showed above...

As far as the tub goes, I'd decide steel or aluminum and either way go with a new one. Doing the rust repair will take a lot of time and you could be working on the rest of the rig. Without the rust repair you could move along pretty quickly on the project.

The tub Robbie has is very nice. As far as steel options go it seems like a bargain even with the mount work. That part seems easy on a rust free, new body. I have always liked the aqualu tubs and the few I've seen in person look great as long as you are OK with the differences in stuff like the pinch welds on the front to back part.

But yeah, I'd gladly pay an extra few grand to avoid the hours doing rust repair. It will be a drop in the bucket when you are done and save you a ton of time and energy.

Thanks for the advice Marco. Having read your build thread in the past - your 40 restoration is impressive! I am planning to go look at the tub Robbie has because it would be nice to have a complete clean tub as my starting point. I don't mind welding and grinding, but hours and hours of rust repair probably isn't the best use of my time.
 

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
Really? I didn't realize Tundras were that heavy. A stock 40 with 2F is about 4k pounds. An SBC conversion will shave around 200 pounds off that (and get you an endo if you're rollin' Nolen LOL)

My previous advice still holds...if it were me and my project, I'd get it driving and running first!

I have a stock 05 Tundra Access Cab and it weighs around 4850 lbs (no topper and without anything in it) having had it on the scale more than a few times hauling landscape rock and stuff to the dump. I think the truck is light for its size and has very impressive power and delivery with the VVTi and 5 speed auto. I towed the 40 on a trailer over Monarch with the Tundra and it did just fine with 244k miles on the clock (combined weight was probably around 10k lbs).

full


I have not weighed my 40, but from what I have read, a soft top 40 should be 3500lbs or less. Doing a motor swap will save me some weight, but I would probably put that back on with a bumper and winch. Have you had a mostly stock 40 on a scale?

I think the 2uz in a 40 would be scary fast because it is such a smooth revving engine... my Tundra at 4800lbs is fast (0-60 in 7 seconds).
 
Last edited:

scheefdog

Locked
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
212
Location
Gunnison
I'm really happy with my aqualu. The front door gap is a bit bigger than stock, not sure if that bothers you. Also, I don't like the aqualu transmission tunnel, so I modified the steel tunnel to fit, I also narrowed the steel tunnel to give me more foot room on the driver floor. Shipping if I recall cost me 500 bucks. I think both the 14" and 18" look good. A 4 door tub would be really cool too. Aqualu makes 4 door tubs. A guy in Mississippi is making steel 4 door tubs that look factory as if Toyota made them. But if your going to stretch it may as well go the full 18". I cut the old tub off in March, and had the 40 painted and back on the road by September with my Aquala. Personally if I was going to do all this work, I would start with a 75 or older so you don't have to worry about emissions when doing a engine swap. I also would just to a LS swap, but that's me. You should get 20MPG with a LS.

The Aqualu tubs look great to me because I haven't spent enough time around 40s to become a purist. I have read your build thread on mud and it is a great resource on installing an Aqualu tub - certainly one I will follow if I go that route. I got a shipping quote from Aqualu and it was basically $1000 - putting their 3/4 tub at $5500 shipped. Not cheap, but I wouldn't have to worry about rust down the road.

Interesting point on the emissions with a 75 and older. There is no emissions testing here and I don't see that starting anytime soon, but you never know... With a 3rz or 2uz swap I plan to do all the emissions stuff with it. The 5vz swap I did looked totally stock and included all the emissions stuff and it wasn't a big deal to include it.

Have you done a Toyota swap before? Or an LS swap? I have noticed you posting on other mud threads that "you would just do an LS swap" - curious why you have such a strong opinion on that.
 
Top